From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Thu Nov  1 12:21:25 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:21:25 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20071101160003.6625C76FE1@bblisa.bblisa.org>
References: <20071101160003.6625C76FE1@bblisa.bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <00a401c81ca3$40273f20$c075bd60$@costa1@verizon.net>

I might know of a few people.  I will sort my rolodex for this.  

Tony Costa
401-556-7686 mobile 

Call me tomorrow if I don't respond to your search today. 


-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf
Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:00 PM
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1

Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
	bblisa at bblisa.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Electricians? (K. M. Peterson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:06:14 -0400
From: "K. M. Peterson" <KMP at KMPeterson.COM>
Subject: [BBLISA] Electricians?
To: Back Bay LISA <bblisa at bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <9CFBA5C2-78AA-4FE7-99B9-FAA68460C441 at KMPeterson.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi everyone,

I need to install a new UPS and wire a new server room.  Does anyone  
have a good electrical contractor they could recommend who has  
experience in this area?

Thanks!
_KMP



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1
*************************************



From emiliouf at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 13:20:02 2007
From: emiliouf at gmail.com (emiliouf at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 13:20:02 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Redhat newbie
Message-ID: <f2948ff30711011020w205dedd8k29238c00e5ddc854@mail.gmail.com>

I have gone into Linux systems and know some of the commands, but I am
integrating HBA's and SAN on a Red Hat server and creating mount points to
each LUN I created.  Any quick tips or site or anything to help on
installing the hba on redhat, and getting the LUNs to show up and then
creating the mount points?
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From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Thu Nov  1 14:06:44 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:06:44 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20071101160003.6625C76FE1@bblisa.bblisa.org>
References: <20071101160003.6625C76FE1@bblisa.bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <00e801c81cb1$f6d962d0$e48c2870$@costa1@verizon.net>

"Tony

Tony, we have personnel, and I would need to have any idea of the dimension
of work. Days, hours, points of access.  


Paulo"

KMP, he means

Do you have a layout, of the systems to be installed ( Visio files,
breakdown of equipment, cabinet/rack distribution )?  These guys can do it
really cheap, they have done even Central Office Installs. Even for a
computer room, they can have the facility to be NEBS standard.  They're that
good. They handle UPS, servers, switching, fiber splicing, testing. 

It involves a certain amount of travelling, thought.  But they will get the
work done like no one else. 

Incidentally, I am not to profit from this. He's a friend of mine.  I passed
to some other folks as well.  


Tony Costa
401-556-7686 mobile





-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf
Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:00 PM
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1

Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
	bblisa at bblisa.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	bblisa-request at bblisa.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	bblisa-owner at bblisa.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of bblisa digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Electricians? (K. M. Peterson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:06:14 -0400
From: "K. M. Peterson" <KMP at KMPeterson.COM>
Subject: [BBLISA] Electricians?
To: Back Bay LISA <bblisa at bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <9CFBA5C2-78AA-4FE7-99B9-FAA68460C441 at KMPeterson.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi everyone,

I need to install a new UPS and wire a new server room.  Does anyone  
have a good electrical contractor they could recommend who has  
experience in this area?

Thanks!
_KMP



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 1
*************************************



From nick.giannotti at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 14:32:49 2007
From: nick.giannotti at gmail.com (Nick Giannotti)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:32:49 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
Message-ID: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
evidence with a quick Google.

Thanks.
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From km3t at km3t.org  Fri Nov  2 14:37:28 2007
From: km3t at km3t.org (Dave Pascoe)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:37:28 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
In-Reply-To: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
References: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472B6E68.6010806@km3t.org>

UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
capacity, though that may have changed.

Dave

Nick Giannotti wrote:
> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> evidence with a quick Google.
> 
> Thanks.



From smeuse at mara.org  Fri Nov  2 14:39:19 2007
From: smeuse at mara.org (Steve Meuse)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:39:19 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
In-Reply-To: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
References: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071102183919.GA3299@mara.org>

Nick Giannotti expunged (nick.giannotti at gmail.com):

> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> evidence with a quick Google.
> 

Verizon Business (Formerly MCI) has a large facility there.

-Steve



From grant at toaster-repair.com  Fri Nov  2 15:42:34 2007
From: grant at toaster-repair.com (Grant Young)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:42:34 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
In-Reply-To: <472B6E68.6010806@km3t.org>
References: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B6E68.6010806@km3t.org>
Message-ID: <A0A86B1B-4094-4A43-993D-E9D9EF52A74D@toaster-repair.com>

It's pretty big.  I'd be surprised if they're too full to take a few  
more systems.  I remember that there was some empty space last I was  
there.

It's one of the better colos I've been in, not that my experience is  
all that comprehensive.

On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dave Pascoe wrote:

> UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
> capacity, though that may have changed.
>
> Dave
>
> Nick Giannotti wrote:
>> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
>> evidence with a quick Google.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From mike at sbitworld.com  Fri Nov  2 21:52:45 2007
From: mike at sbitworld.com (SBITworld)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 21:52:45 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
In-Reply-To: <A0A86B1B-4094-4A43-993D-E9D9EF52A74D@toaster-repair.com>
References: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B6E68.6010806@km3t.org>
	<A0A86B1B-4094-4A43-993D-E9D9EF52A74D@toaster-repair.com>
Message-ID: <607d15b20711021852t2a4a99fckc36f5750b1d42320@mail.gmail.com>

I inquired about that facillity with Verizon about 1 year ago. I beleive
they were pretty full and were trying to build out more space or power. For
whatever reason we were not agressively persued by them.

On 11/2/07, Grant Young <grant at toaster-repair.com> wrote:
>
> It's pretty big.  I'd be surprised if they're too full to take a few
> more systems.  I remember that there was some empty space last I was
> there.
>
> It's one of the better colos I've been in, not that my experience is
> all that comprehensive.
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dave Pascoe wrote:
>
> > UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
> > capacity, though that may have changed.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > Nick Giannotti wrote:
> >> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> >> evidence with a quick Google.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bblisa mailing list
> > bblisa at bblisa.org
> > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



-- 
Michael Filosa
mfilosa at gmail.com
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From nick.giannotti at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 22:16:49 2007
From: nick.giannotti at gmail.com (Nick Giannotti)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 22:16:49 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: Colo in Billerica?
In-Reply-To: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
References: <627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <627f08ff0711021916x406483cfxff6f092f30ec7eab@mail.gmail.com>

Much obliged, everyone, thank you! :)
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From scott at MIT.EDU  Sat Nov  3 13:20:21 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:20:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [BBLISA] Unusual date/time for Windows logout event
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711031319420.4071@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>

I reviewed the event viewer on a Windows XP machine, fully patched, that 
is on an isolated LAN, and discovered a single logoff from a user account 
at an unusual hour.  Just a few hours before that event, another user 
shows a login/logout at a normal time.

The configuration is a RedHat Enterprise 5 Server configured as a Samba Windows 
NT 4 domain, and Windows XP w/SP2 workstations as members.

Security is maintained tighly as I'm currently the only one with root/admin 
rights.   Everyone else is a general user.

What _might_ cause that one user to show a bizarre logout-only entry, and a 
bizarre time?

I'll also check my samba logs to see if they show anything.

Thanks for any insights.

Scott



From someara at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 14:55:10 2007
From: someara at gmail.com (Sean OMeara)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 14:55:10 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] Unusual date/time for Windows logout event
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711031319420.4071@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711031319420.4071@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <5a1a3bcd0711031155k63337e98kcceecb95c7f6e6ac@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/3/07, Scott Ehrlich <scott at mit.edu> wrote:
> I reviewed the event viewer on a Windows XP machine, fully patched, that
> is on an isolated LAN, and discovered a single logoff from a user account
> at an unusual hour.  Just a few hours before that event, another user
> shows a login/logout at a normal time.

> The configuration is a RedHat Enterprise 5 Server configured as a Samba Windows
> NT 4 domain, and Windows XP w/SP2 workstations as members.
> Security is maintained tighly as I'm currently the only one with root/admin
> rights.   Everyone else is a general user.

If you have reason to suspect malicious activity I'd look extremely
closely at your password policy.

What mechanism defines and ensures minimum length/complexity?

I seem to remember you being interested in unifying logins between
linux hosts and windows hosts. Did you ever end up doing that? Can
users log into your RHEL machine?

How was the configuration as an NT4 domain accomplished?
What is the backend? tdbsam or ldap?

If tdbsam, are the security bits the file set so it can only be read
by the samba daemon?

If ldap, are you using the smb-ldap scripts from padl?
Are the ACLs on the ldap server setup to only allow read access to
records' (unsalted) sambaLMPassword and sambaNTpassword attributes?

Are you using NIS?

I've never understood why redhat and friends encourage NT4 style
domain controllers running samba. Even Microsoft had the sense to move
away from that back in 2000.

All that being said, the event is probably benign.

> What _might_ cause that one user to show a bizarre logout-only entry, and a
> bizarre time?

What does the local security policy for the XP machines look like?
My guest is that It's most likely a remote client "disconnecting" from
accessing a share or something.

Logon events are generated every time a user authenticates, Logoff
events are a courtesy.... here's an example of a scenario where
strange looking logs are generated:

Bob logs into workstation (authenticates) , goes to bathroom.
Password protected screensaver kicks on.
Bob comes back and unlocks screen saver. (authenticates)
Bob trips over power cord on way to lunch, powering the machine off
Bob plug machine back in, logs on (authenticates), makes sure his work
is okay, goes to lunch.
Bob comes back, unlocks screen saver, (authenticates) does some more work
Bob logs off and goes home.

The event log will look like:
User bob logon
User bob logon
User bob logon
User bob logon
User bob logoff

> I'll also check my samba logs to see if they show anything.

Doubtful


> Thanks for any insights.
>
> Scott

-s



From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Sat Nov  3 15:30:43 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:30:43 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20071103160004.71B9076FE9@bblisa.bblisa.org>
References: <20071103160004.71B9076FE9@bblisa.bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <002401c81e50$077b57c0$16720740$@costa1@verizon.net>

Billerica.....

Hmmm, that's the Navisite place in Andover.   I have the contacts there. 

Also you have facilities in Marlborough, through Access Northeast. 

Tony Costa
tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com 
401-556-7686


-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf
Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 12:00 PM
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 3

Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
	bblisa at bblisa.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	bblisa-request at bblisa.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	bblisa-owner at bblisa.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of bblisa digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Colo in Billerica? (Nick Giannotti)
   2. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Dave Pascoe)
   3. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Steve Meuse)
   4. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Grant Young)
   5. Re: Colo in Billerica? (SBITworld)
   6. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Nick Giannotti)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:32:49 -0400
From: "Nick Giannotti" <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID:
	<627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
evidence with a quick Google.

Thanks.
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:37:28 -0400
From: Dave Pascoe <km3t at km3t.org>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: Nick Giannotti <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <472B6E68.6010806 at km3t.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
capacity, though that may have changed.

Dave

Nick Giannotti wrote:
> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> evidence with a quick Google.
> 
> Thanks.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:39:19 -0400
From: Steve Meuse <smeuse at mara.org>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: Nick Giannotti <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <20071102183919.GA3299 at mara.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Nick Giannotti expunged (nick.giannotti at gmail.com):

> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> evidence with a quick Google.
> 

Verizon Business (Formerly MCI) has a large facility there.

-Steve



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:42:34 -0400
From: Grant Young <grant at toaster-repair.com>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <A0A86B1B-4094-4A43-993D-E9D9EF52A74D at toaster-repair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

It's pretty big.  I'd be surprised if they're too full to take a few  
more systems.  I remember that there was some empty space last I was  
there.

It's one of the better colos I've been in, not that my experience is  
all that comprehensive.

On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dave Pascoe wrote:

> UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
> capacity, though that may have changed.
>
> Dave
>
> Nick Giannotti wrote:
>> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
>> evidence with a quick Google.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 21:52:45 -0400
From: SBITworld <mike at sbitworld.com>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: "Grant Young" <grant at toaster-repair.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID:
	<607d15b20711021852t2a4a99fckc36f5750b1d42320 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I inquired about that facillity with Verizon about 1 year ago. I beleive
they were pretty full and were trying to build out more space or power. For
whatever reason we were not agressively persued by them.

On 11/2/07, Grant Young <grant at toaster-repair.com> wrote:
>
> It's pretty big.  I'd be surprised if they're too full to take a few
> more systems.  I remember that there was some empty space last I was
> there.
>
> It's one of the better colos I've been in, not that my experience is
> all that comprehensive.
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dave Pascoe wrote:
>
> > UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
> > capacity, though that may have changed.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > Nick Giannotti wrote:
> >> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> >> evidence with a quick Google.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bblisa mailing list
> > bblisa at bblisa.org
> > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



-- 
Michael Filosa
mfilosa at gmail.com
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 22:16:49 -0400
From: "Nick Giannotti" <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: Colo in Billerica?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID:
	<627f08ff0711021916x406483cfxff6f092f30ec7eab at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Much obliged, everyone, thank you! :)
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------------------------------

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 3
*************************************



From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Sat Nov  3 15:31:33 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:31:33 -0400
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20071103160004.71B9076FE9@bblisa.bblisa.org>
References: <20071103160004.71B9076FE9@bblisa.bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <002501c81e50$2497e350$6dc7a9f0$@costa1@verizon.net>

There's also Mirror Image Internet on Tewksbury. 

Tony Costa
tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com
401-556-7686


-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf
Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 12:00 PM
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 3

Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
	bblisa at bblisa.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
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Today's Topics:

   1. Colo in Billerica? (Nick Giannotti)
   2. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Dave Pascoe)
   3. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Steve Meuse)
   4. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Grant Young)
   5. Re: Colo in Billerica? (SBITworld)
   6. Re: Colo in Billerica? (Nick Giannotti)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:32:49 -0400
From: "Nick Giannotti" <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Subject: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID:
	<627f08ff0711021132v719d634fm6c4e81b67cb10284 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
evidence with a quick Google.

Thanks.
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:37:28 -0400
From: Dave Pascoe <km3t at km3t.org>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: Nick Giannotti <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <472B6E68.6010806 at km3t.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
capacity, though that may have changed.

Dave

Nick Giannotti wrote:
> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> evidence with a quick Google.
> 
> Thanks.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:39:19 -0400
From: Steve Meuse <smeuse at mara.org>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: Nick Giannotti <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <20071102183919.GA3299 at mara.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Nick Giannotti expunged (nick.giannotti at gmail.com):

> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> evidence with a quick Google.
> 

Verizon Business (Formerly MCI) has a large facility there.

-Steve



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:42:34 -0400
From: Grant Young <grant at toaster-repair.com>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <A0A86B1B-4094-4A43-993D-E9D9EF52A74D at toaster-repair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

It's pretty big.  I'd be surprised if they're too full to take a few  
more systems.  I remember that there was some empty space last I was  
there.

It's one of the better colos I've been in, not that my experience is  
all that comprehensive.

On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dave Pascoe wrote:

> UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
> capacity, though that may have changed.
>
> Dave
>
> Nick Giannotti wrote:
>> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
>> evidence with a quick Google.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 21:52:45 -0400
From: SBITworld <mike at sbitworld.com>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Colo in Billerica?
To: "Grant Young" <grant at toaster-repair.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID:
	<607d15b20711021852t2a4a99fckc36f5750b1d42320 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I inquired about that facillity with Verizon about 1 year ago. I beleive
they were pretty full and were trying to build out more space or power. For
whatever reason we were not agressively persued by them.

On 11/2/07, Grant Young <grant at toaster-repair.com> wrote:
>
> It's pretty big.  I'd be surprised if they're too full to take a few
> more systems.  I remember that there was some empty space last I was
> there.
>
> It's one of the better colos I've been in, not that my experience is
> all that comprehensive.
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:37 PM, Dave Pascoe wrote:
>
> > UUNET/MCI/Verizon has one there.  Last I heard it was pretty much at
> > capacity, though that may have changed.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > Nick Giannotti wrote:
> >> Is there a colocation facility in Billerica, MA? I couldn't find any
> >> evidence with a quick Google.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bblisa mailing list
> > bblisa at bblisa.org
> > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



-- 
Michael Filosa
mfilosa at gmail.com
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 22:16:49 -0400
From: "Nick Giannotti" <nick.giannotti at gmail.com>
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: Colo in Billerica?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID:
	<627f08ff0711021916x406483cfxff6f092f30ec7eab at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Much obliged, everyone, thank you! :)
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_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 3
*************************************



From Tony.Rudie at fmr.com  Mon Nov  5 09:27:30 2007
From: Tony.Rudie at fmr.com (Rudie, Tony)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:27:30 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] SAN boot
Message-ID: <825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE0A24515B@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>

Is anyone out there using SAN boot (i.e. no local disks) on any kind of large scale?  I'm looking at it to solve a specific hardware problem for AIX and I'm wondering how lonely I'm going to feel.

Thanks,

Tony Rudi?
<tony.rudie at fmr.com>  617 563 2509
"Email is only better than nothing"
 - NYU Professor Clay Shirky, quoted in the New York Times



From hollandjustin at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 20:05:21 2007
From: hollandjustin at gmail.com (Justin Holland)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 20:05:21 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Fun Local Startup looking for Serious SysAdmin!
Message-ID: <448f5f720711061705r11860f28s60ec394c5164b18f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone!

We are a local Boston funded startup and we are looking for a serious
SysAdmin who loves linux!  We are a bunch of young MIT guys looking for
someone who can tell us what to do with our servers!  We currently implement
an interesting combination of Memcached, mysql, mod_perl, mod_php, along
with all sorts of in office systems (wikis, exchange servers, crms,
deployment systems, etc) on RHEL4.

We have a production environment at Rackspace that supports a 2.5 million
user facebook application, along with 200,000 active software users (lots of
db comm).  We also have several in house servers in our boston office (btw,
our office is a lot of fun and really convenient being right next to South
Station)

REQUIREMENTS:
3-5 years of experience in administering a linux OS in a production
environment
Configuring and deploying MySQL database server software
Enterprise and/or web content management systems is a plus
Monitoring logs and system activity of Unix or Linux servers
Experience with deployment and update scripts
Experience with automating system administration tasks with shell scripting,
perl, or python
Experience with configuration management systems is a plus
Experience with server virtualization technology, in particular VMware

Salary will be based on experience.

Thanks!

-- 
Justin A. Holland
FreeCause, COO
107 South Street | Suite 5C
Boston, MA 02111
P: 617.292.0200 | F: 617.292.0218

www.freecause.com
Your Cause, Our Commitment.

The information contained in this email is intended only for the personal
and confidential use of the recipients named above. The message is a
confidential communication and may be protected by various state and/or
federal laws regarding privileged communications. If you have received this
message in error, you are requested to immediately delete it and notify
FreeCause of the error. Any review, dissemination, or copying of this
message without the consent of FreeCause is strictly prohibited.
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From scott at MIT.EDU  Thu Nov  8 02:37:00 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 02:37:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Samba PDC, Win XP, and audit logging?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711080236370.5781@mass-toolpike.mit.edu>

I have several Windows XP machines that are domain members of a Samba PDC 
running under RedHat Enterprise 5 Server, installed with out-of-box RedHat 
media.

Detailed audit logging is enabled on the Windows machines.

My question is this - if I find an entry in the Windows XP Event Viewer 
Security log, does that reflect anywhere on the linux audit logs?

I found one entry in the XP logs I wanted to investigate further.   I visited 
the audit logs on the linux box and filtered with ausearch, but there was no 
corresponding date/time stamp entry.

The Windows XP machines have been patched for the change in Daylight Savings 
Time.

So do only the Windows machines make note of the login/logout security audits, 
or do I need to look somewhere else on the linux audits for corresponding 
login/logout entries from domain logins?

Thanks.

Scott



From chaos at glassonion.org  Mon Nov 12 08:57:12 2007
From: chaos at glassonion.org (Chaos Golubitsky)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:57:12 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] local source of storage hardware?
Message-ID: <20071112135712.GA12555@glassonion.org>

I need a mini-SAS cable (for a direct-attached storage array; it's
a predictably long story why we didn't get one with the card) today.
There must be computer hardware stores in the area other than MicroCenter,
but i don't know them --- can anyone name any which might be likely to
have modestly obscure cables in stock?

Thanks.

Chaos



From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Mon Nov 12 12:21:44 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:21:44 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <20071112170003.6B92176F8A@bblisa.bblisa.org>
References: <20071112170003.6B92176F8A@bblisa.bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <005901c82550$7fc83de0$7f58b9a0$@costa1@verizon.net>

Try BL Trading on Hanover, MA. Not sure if they're open, but they are the
most likely source available for this.

Price wise they can't be beat.   If you need to drive, they're off Rt3 by
the Hanover Mall, just past Edwin Watts Golf across the street. 

www.bltrading.com 

Tony Costa
Tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com
401-556-7686



-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf
Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:00 PM
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8

Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
	bblisa at bblisa.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	bblisa-request at bblisa.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	bblisa-owner at bblisa.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of bblisa digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. local source of storage hardware? (Chaos Golubitsky)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 08:57:12 -0500
From: Chaos Golubitsky <chaos at glassonion.org>
Subject: [BBLISA] local source of storage hardware?
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <20071112135712.GA12555 at glassonion.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I need a mini-SAS cable (for a direct-attached storage array; it's
a predictably long story why we didn't get one with the card) today.
There must be computer hardware stores in the area other than MicroCenter,
but i don't know them --- can anyone name any which might be likely to
have modestly obscure cables in stock?

Thanks.

Chaos



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 8
*************************************



From scott at MIT.EDU  Mon Nov 12 15:40:51 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:40:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>

I'm currently using dump for backups and am happy with it.  Haven't tried 
to restore yet, but a long-time colleague/admin swears by dump/restore - 
and the tools are free, come with linux distros,and have community 
support.

Legato Networker costs a lot, and is commercial.

What arguement(s) can be made of/for Legato vs dump?

I am aware that Legato can be used to help integrate with databases, 
Exchange, etc with special addons.  But for general filesystem 
preservation... dump or Legato.   Let's put money aside for now and just 
consider overall integrity of files and filesystems.

Thanks.

Scott



From michael.tiernan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 15:52:43 2007
From: michael.tiernan at gmail.com (Michael Tiernan)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:52:43 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 12, 2007 3:40 PM, Scott Ehrlich <scott at mit.edu> wrote:
> What arguement(s) can be made of/for Legato vs dump?

I've been wanting to post a question about 'dump' but I've been hesitant.

I don't know why but I've always had a "flag" in the back of my head
that there's a problem with dump/restore going back into the dawn of
time.

I'd love to hear if anyone's aware of if this was a real issue and if
it was ever resolved.
(Please don't blame college parties on this one....) ;)
-- 
    << MCT >>   Michael C Tiernan.
    Is God a performance artist?
    EGO hack vivo quod ago accido.
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan



From john at stoffel.org  Mon Nov 12 16:04:17 2007
From: john at stoffel.org (John Stoffel)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:04:17 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>



Michael> On Nov 12, 2007 3:40 PM, Scott Ehrlich <scott at mit.edu> wrote:
>> What arguement(s) can be made of/for Legato vs dump?

Michael> I've been wanting to post a question about 'dump' but I've
Michael> been hesitant.

Don't.  We're all quite happy to rip in your mistaken beliefs!!  Bwah
hah haha!  

Ok, seriously.  Don't worry, we all have questions we think are dumb
or silly or embarrassing, but hey ask anyway.  And we won't give you
grief at all.

Michael> I don't know why but I've always had a "flag" in the back of
Michael> my head that there's a problem with dump/restore going back
Michael> into the dawn of time.

Michael> I'd love to hear if anyone's aware of if this was a real
Michael> issue and if it was ever resolved.

Well, the general issue is open files.  And files created after the
backup process starts.  

For example, if you are doing an incremental backup of just the files
that changed since the previous backup, you need to do two passes.
Well, not quite, you can optimize it, but there's definitely a window
where a file can be created (or deleted!) between the initial scan of
the directory and the actual reading of the file to be sent to tape,
disk, whatever.

John



From john at stoffel.org  Mon Nov 12 16:08:06 2007
From: john at stoffel.org (John Stoffel)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:08:06 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <18232.49334.423611.593518@stoffel.org>


Scott> I'm currently using dump for backups and am happy with it.
Scott> Haven't tried to restore yet, but a long-time colleague/admin
Scott> swears by dump/restore - and the tools are free, come with
Scott> linux distros,and have community support.

Remember, no one cares about backups, ever.  They only care about
restores.  So do yourself a favor and do a retore to make sure you're
actually writing data to the tapes properly.  

Tales about of people who wrote multiple backups to a single tape, not
realizing for months that they had opened the wrong device, which
caused the tape to rewind to the beginning after each session was
done.  

Time comes to do a retore, and the only data is from the last
session.  Ooops!

Scott> Legato Networker costs a lot, and is commercial.

I'd point you to Amanda and Bacula as free alternatives which do a
decent job.  Networker, which I've used for years, has some really
nice CLI commands which give you alot of power over your backups
without having to use a GUI.  And they're well documented.

Bacula is also well documented, but it's command line tools suck in
comparision to Legato's.  Can't remember much about Amanda's tools,
it's been years since I last used it.  

Scott> What arguement(s) can be made of/for Legato vs dump?

Legato allows you to browse your backups and select only the file(s)
you want to restore, and will do so efficiently, without having to
scan the entire tape from end to end to do said restore.

This goes back to my point above, users only care about restores, not
about backups. 

Scott> I am aware that Legato can be used to help integrate with databases, 
Scott> Exchange, etc with special addons.  But for general filesystem 
Scott> preservation... dump or Legato.   Let's put money aside for now and just 
Scott> consider overall integrity of files and filesystems.

Scott> Thanks.

Scott> Scott

Scott> _______________________________________________
Scott> bblisa mailing list
Scott> bblisa at bblisa.org
Scott> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa


Scott> !DSPAM:4738bab3267921489523018!



From feenberg at nber.org  Mon Nov 12 17:28:04 2007
From: feenberg at nber.org (Daniel Feenberg)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:28:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0711121719400.16906@nber5.nber.org>



On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Scott Ehrlich wrote:

> I'm currently using dump for backups and am happy with it.  Haven't tried to 
> restore yet, but a long-time colleague/admin swears by dump/restore - and the 
> tools are free, come with linux distros,and have community support.
>
> Legato Networker costs a lot, and is commercial.
>
> What arguement(s) can be made of/for Legato vs dump?

Commercial backup solutions offer "enterprise" support, but rarely say 
what that means, beyond "high cost". As far as I can tell, the fundamental 
things they do that dump or rsync won't do are:

   1) Backup a live Oracle database without screwing up.
   2) Backup a live filesystem without missing files.
   3) Send multiple backup sets to the same tape drive simultaneously so
      streaming drives don't shoe-shine
   4) Control tape robots (but mtx can do that now).
   5) GUI interface (but lots of FOSS can do that now).

The basic downside (apart from expense) is that you will need proprietary 
software to do a restore. I may be missing something - we never bought a 
proprietary backup because we didn't need any of the above. But we may be
missing something valuable - I don't know.

If you are interested in backup the Oreilly volume by Curtis Preston is 
very worthwhile. He describes in detail the very unusual circumstances in 
which dump might miss a file from a mounted volume.

Daniel Feenberg

>
> I am aware that Legato can be used to help integrate with databases, 
> Exchange, etc with special addons.  But for general filesystem 
> preservation... dump or Legato.   Let's put money aside for now and just 
> consider overall integrity of files and filesystems.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From dean at av8.com  Mon Nov 12 19:04:47 2007
From: dean at av8.com (Dean Anderson)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:04:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711121853420.19642-100000@citation2.av8.net>

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, John Stoffel wrote:

> Well, the general issue is open files.  And files created after the
> backup process starts.  
> 
> For example, if you are doing an incremental backup of just the files
> that changed since the previous backup, you need to do two passes.
> Well, not quite, you can optimize it, but there's definitely a window
> where a file can be created (or deleted!) between the initial scan of
> the directory and the actual reading of the file to be sent to tape,
> disk, whatever.

This is why dump manpage says the filesystem should be quiecent.  
Unmounted and clean is best, but not required. Shutdown the database
before dump; start it after dump.  Other user activity is usually just
hit or miss, and the users don't mind just too much (well, don't tell
them that when they've just lost their important file, unless behind 3
inches of plexiglass--bofh). This is why people want snapshots in
filesystems...

Fix ext3, ffs, and ufs to have even just one snapshot (like afs), and
they'd be a hero loved by all... But its probably easier to rig the
lottery...

		--Dean


-- 
Av8 Internet   Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
www.av8.net         faster, more reliable, better service
617 344 9000   




From brc at peppermint.org  Mon Nov 12 20:10:05 2007
From: brc at peppermint.org (Benjamin Cline)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:10:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711121853420.19642-100000@citation2.av8.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711121853420.19642-100000@citation2.av8.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.53.0711121951060.12234@tea.peppermint.org>

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Dean Anderson wrote:
> Fix ext3, ffs, and ufs to have even just one snapshot (like afs), and
> they'd be a hero loved by all... But its probably easier to rig the
> lottery...
>

Actually, Sun has done this in Solaris 8 (and presumably 9 and 10,
although I haven't worked with those versions of Solaris yet). See the man
pages for fssnap(1M) and fssnap_ufs(1M). It would be nice to see similar
functionality in Linux and *BSD.

	Benji

-- 
Benjamin R. Cline
brc at peppermint dot org



From michael.tiernan at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 20:13:31 2007
From: michael.tiernan at gmail.com (Michael Tiernan)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:13:31 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
Message-ID: <6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 12, 2007 4:04 PM, John Stoffel <john at stoffel.org> wrote:
> Don't.  We're all quite happy to rip in your mistaken beliefs!!  Bwah
> hah haha!

Hey, I've been to meetings! I learned to have a thick skin a long time go. :)

Nice thing about geeks, no ambiguity. :)

> Well, the general issue is open files.  And files created after the
> backup process starts.
I know that this is the issue normally. That's a quirk of the design.
The issue I believe that I was remembering was something more along
the lines of a uniquely linux quirk where "dump" did not permit
correct restores. Hell, this could've been a 2.2 kernel issue and long
since cured. I've just never been smart enough to get to the bottom of
the issue once and for all.
-- 
    << MCT >>   Michael C Tiernan.
    Is God a performance artist?
    EGO hack vivo quod ago accido.
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan



From bblisa-in at crash.com  Mon Nov 12 23:21:11 2007
From: bblisa-in at crash.com (Steven M Jones)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:21:11 -0800
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.53.0711121951060.12234@tea.peppermint.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711121853420.19642-100000@citation2.av8.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.53.0711121951060.12234@tea.peppermint.org>
Message-ID: <47392637.9000904@crash.com>

No wonder my two responses never showed up -- "reply" sent them to the
OP and not the list...

Scott Ehrlich wrote:

> I'm currently using dump for backups and am happy with it. Haven't
> tried to restore yet, but a long-time colleague/admin swears by
> dump/restore - and the tools are free, come with linux distros,and
> have community support.
>   

As others have said: Test what you _think_ you've backed up. You don't
want to have to explain that you never verified your backups when your
users' data is gone.

I don't trust the Linux versions of dump/restore, but this dates back
to when ext2 was king. It simply was not reliable in terms of getting
back what you put into it, and everybody "out there" seemed to rely on
tar and just lived with it. But perhaps that's changed, certainly
enough years have passed that it should have.

On BSDish systems, dump+restore is the standard for integrity and it
gets things like device specials, sockets, and other interesting files
right. FreeBSD gives you filesystem snapshots, which you can then use
to get a consistent dump image. This doesn't eliminate open file
issues, but it tightens the window up a whole lot.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/snapshots.html

Systems like Amanda, Bacula and Networker will give you tape management,
scheduling, and other goodies that you probably really want, especially
if you have a multi-tape device like a robot or carousel. Amanda (at
least) will let you specify what underlying archiver you want to use for
each volume, e.g. tar on Linux, dump on BSD, ufsdump on Solaris, etc.

Legato probably has better support for larger tape libraries, and more
sophisticated ways to manage mutliple backup streams over a given set of
pipes or SAN fabrics.

Keep in mind that with Amanda I can read the archived files from tape on
any compatible system, since it uses native tools that I specify. On the
other hand Networker is probably using it's own proprietary format, and
you'll need a licensed, compatible version to restore anything. Might
not be a concern, then again it might...

The larger your installation, the less of a concern this sort of thing
would be. If I had a lot of servers and a lot of tape devices, I would
give Networker a very serious look. When I worked with it many years ago
it was a nice product and well-suited to such scenarios.

--Steve.

Steve Jones
(once a sysadmin, now just another PHB...)




From ccb at acm.org  Tue Nov 13 10:03:58 2007
From: ccb at acm.org (Charles C. Bennett, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:03:58 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] local source of storage hardware?
In-Reply-To: <20071112135712.GA12555@glassonion.org>
References: <20071112135712.GA12555@glassonion.org>
Message-ID: <1194966238.6937.14.camel@cbox.memecycle.com>



On Mon, 2007-11-12 at 08:57 -0500, Chaos Golubitsky wrote:
> I need a mini-SAS cable (for a direct-attached storage array; it's
> a predictably long story why we didn't get one with the card) today.
> There must be computer hardware stores in the area other than MicroCenter,
> but i don't know them --- can anyone name any which might be likely to
> have modestly obscure cables in stock?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chaos
> 


Call Micros Northeast in Woburn.  They're the only folks I know of that
carry all the little essential bits.

http://microsnortheast.com


> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
-- 
Charles C. Bennett, Jr. <ccb at acm.org>



From john at stoffel.org  Tue Nov 13 10:45:21 2007
From: john at stoffel.org (John Stoffel)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:45:21 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711121853420.19642-100000@citation2.av8.net>
References: <18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0711121853420.19642-100000@citation2.av8.net>
Message-ID: <18233.50833.90610.367720@stoffel.org>


Dean> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, John Stoffel wrote:
>> Well, the general issue is open files.  And files created after the
>> backup process starts.  
>> 
>> For example, if you are doing an incremental backup of just the files
>> that changed since the previous backup, you need to do two passes.
>> Well, not quite, you can optimize it, but there's definitely a window
>> where a file can be created (or deleted!) between the initial scan of
>> the directory and the actual reading of the file to be sent to tape,
>> disk, whatever.

Dean> This is why dump manpage says the filesystem should be quiecent.

Dump/restore was all written way back in the mists of time when people
didn't mind that you shutdown the system to single user mode for
backups and such.  Thankfully, it's long gone.  :]

Dean> Unmounted and clean is best, but not required. Shutdown the
Dean> database before dump; start it after dump.  Other user activity
Dean> is usually just hit or miss, and the users don't mind just too
Dean> much (well, don't tell them that when they've just lost their
Dean> important file, unless behind 3 inches of
Dean> plexiglass--bofh). This is why people want snapshots in
Dean> filesystems...

Snapshots are awesome, I love my NetApps for this.  Linux filesystems
and volume manager still have a way to go in this regard
unfortunately.  

Dean> Fix ext3, ffs, and ufs to have even just one snapshot (like
Dean> afs), and they'd be a hero loved by all... But its probably
Dean> easier to rig the lottery...

ext4 might be able to do this, I doubt ext3 could.  And you really do
want to make sure you handle all the corner cases gracefully.  

John



From dave at dpallan.com  Tue Nov 13 14:01:37 2007
From: dave at dpallan.com (David Allan)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:01:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Michael Tiernan wrote:

> The issue I believe that I was remembering was something more along
> the lines of a uniquely linux quirk where "dump" did not permit
> correct restores. Hell, this could've been a 2.2 kernel issue and long

I do remember an issue with dump/restore just not working properly in the
2.2 timeframe, and I have heard that it has been long resolved, but I have
not used dump/restore since the 2.0 timeframe, so I can't personally vouch
for it.  In the 2.0 days, I was very happy with it, though, even if I did
occasionally get bitten by the your-filesystem-must-be-quiesced behavior.

My take on backup in general is that it's a task that's easy to get wrong 
because very few people take the time to verify their backups regularly, 
and because not everybody understands the limitations caused by concurrent 
access (e.g., you can't backup a running DB without software that groks 
its internals).  My experience has been that if you understand backup, and 
you have a well thought out procedure, most tools can be made to do a 
effective job.

Dave



From michael.tiernan at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 14:29:30 2007
From: michael.tiernan at gmail.com (Michael Tiernan)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:29:30 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
Message-ID: <6fd62ea30711131129m69d6f135u2dd2b84724466c02@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 13, 2007 2:01 PM, David Allan <dave at dpallan.com> wrote:
[...]
> My take on backup in general is that it's a task that's easy to get wrong
[...]

I agree. Now I'm hoping some propeller-head type figures out a
"scheme" for performing backups to WORM media. We're all familiar with
(what I believe is called) the towers of hanoi approach which seems to
have been created with the characteristics of tape media in mind.

What I've been trying to sort out is what you do when you can't reuse
your media. I can do a backup to disk as a daily but does doing
backups of that to WORM make any sense? This is a puzzle for better
brains than mine.
-- 
    << MCT >>   Michael C Tiernan.
    Is God a performance artist?
    EGO hack vivo quod ago accido.
    http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan



From Tony.Rudie at fmr.com  Tue Nov 13 14:36:36 2007
From: Tony.Rudie at fmr.com (Rudie, Tony)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:36:36 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu><6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com><18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org><6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
Message-ID: <825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE04A95A1A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>

 
-----Original Message-----
From:  David Allan
>  My experience has been that if you understand backup, and 
>  you have a well thought out procedure, most tools can be made to do a

>  effective job.

And of course, even the most expensive backup software requires that you
(as David puts it) "understand backup and have a well thought out
procedure"  

-Tony R.

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From john at stoffel.org  Tue Nov 13 14:55:43 2007
From: john at stoffel.org (John Stoffel)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:55:43 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE04A95A1A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
	<825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE04A95A1A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>
Message-ID: <18234.319.304495.279761@stoffel.org>


Tony> -----Original Message-----
Tony> From:  David Allan
>> My experience has been that if you understand backup, and 
>> you have a well thought out procedure, most tools can be made to do a

>> effective job.

Tony> And of course, even the most expensive backup software requires
Tony> that you (as David puts it) "understand backup and have a well
Tony> thought out procedure"

Hear hear!  Well put.  I agree completely.



From john at stoffel.org  Tue Nov 13 15:47:11 2007
From: john at stoffel.org (John Stoffel)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:47:11 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <6fd62ea30711131129m69d6f135u2dd2b84724466c02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
	<6fd62ea30711131129m69d6f135u2dd2b84724466c02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18234.3407.508212.248252@stoffel.org>


Michael> I agree. Now I'm hoping some propeller-head type figures out
Michael> a "scheme" for performing backups to WORM media. We're all
Michael> familiar with (what I believe is called) the towers of hanoi
Michael> approach which seems to have been created with the
Michael> characteristics of tape media in mind.

It's already been done actually.  Using WORM media isn't any different
from using any other type of media which has an infinite retention
policy.  It's just that the media enforces it.  :]

The big issue with WORM media is the sheer cost of the media, and the
need to shuffle lots of pieces of media just to backup one regular
sized harddisk.

I know people use Bacula to backup to DVD, but they must be shuffling
discs like crazy, or they have a DVD autoloader/jukebox type thing.
Or they only backup a subset of their data.  

Me, I'm lazy and careless so I backup all my data, it's just simpler
to not worry about.  

Michael> What I've been trying to sort out is what you do when you
Michael> can't reuse your media. I can do a backup to disk as a daily
Michael> but does doing backups of that to WORM make any sense? This
Michael> is a puzzle for better brains than mine.

Sure, backups to WORM makes sense if you're in an industry which
requires your backups to NOT be changeable, or in my mind, your
*archives* cannot be changed once they are written.  

EMC and NetApp both sell products to the financial industry which
allows you to make a backup and then lock it, so it can't be changed.
Of course this means they sell lots of disks and lots of expensive
licenses to manage all this.  Whee!

For a home user... WORM can be ok, but again you need to understand
the lifetime limitations, as well as the difference between an archive
and a backup.

Most people consider a backup to be an archive.  And it's not.
Archives are forever and unchanging.  Backups are for a defined set of
time, and can (should?) be recycled.  These days, with lawsuits and
such, alot of businesses are either making backup retentions quite
short and automatic, or they go to the other extreme and are keeping
them for a *really* long time.

John



From scott at MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 13 18:44:02 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:44:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <18234.3407.508212.248252@stoffel.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
	<6fd62ea30711131129m69d6f135u2dd2b84724466c02@mail.gmail.com>
	<18234.3407.508212.248252@stoffel.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711131839440.100@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>

I'd really like to thank everyone who responded, and I encourage the 
responses to keep coming!  (if the list as a whole doesn't want to be 
"spammed" with this threat, I absolustely welcome individual responses).

I'm currently at the LISA conference in Dallas but will absolutely perform 
a restore test first thing when I get back to the office next week.   From 
what I've seen of the dumps, the dump file sizes appear to be properly 
backing up everything.

What I'd like to find out, and I just haven't man'ed it yet, is if I can 
perform a view/list of dumped files, and maybe restore one or two 
files/directories to test, without having to restore everything.  Again, 
this is my first time using dump/restore in production.  One or two 
examples I *should* be fine from there.

Thanks again!

Scott



From bblisa-in at crash.com  Tue Nov 13 19:34:58 2007
From: bblisa-in at crash.com (Steven M Jones)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:34:58 -0800
Subject: [BBLISA] dump or Legato Networker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711131839440.100@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711121534510.19711@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<6fd62ea30711121252i7431e8daleb9068262e1e21f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<18232.49105.306267.487448@stoffel.org>
	<6fd62ea30711121713p5bd550dbv5da4f9168071ada2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071113133701.U68051@kaazh.pair.com>
	<6fd62ea30711131129m69d6f135u2dd2b84724466c02@mail.gmail.com>
	<18234.3407.508212.248252@stoffel.org>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711131839440.100@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20071114003458.GA45330@crash.com>

On Tue, Nov 13, 2007 at 06:44:02PM -0500, Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> 
> What I'd like to find out, and I just haven't man'ed it yet, is if I can 
> perform a view/list of dumped files, and maybe restore one or two 
> files/directories to test, without having to restore everything.

I would still recommend restoring a full volume of average size if you
haven't done so previously. I'd even spend the time on a script to
compare checksums between what was restored and the source.

"restore -ivf /dev/tape" -- interactive mode -- is a nice way to walk
through the backup and select a few files or directories to restore for
comparison. I used to use it all the time to fulfill user requests, in
places I wasn't using Amanda or Networker.

There is a "-t" option for restore, at least on BSD, so you can probably
dump a listing of what's on the tape or dump file if that's what you're
after.

If you're at LISA, there's probably a session or three on this very
topic...

--S.



From scott at MIT.EDU  Thu Nov 15 11:30:52 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:30:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>

I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and hates Linux. 
I'd like to get insight from the list of viewpoints, security, comparisons, 
package availability, etc, of the differences between the basic worlds of 
UNIX-like distros.

Second, what are the differences among Open/Free/Net BSD?

I'm not calling for any wars.   I'm looking for genuine education to understand 
the worlds between Linux and BSD, and then among the BSD distros.

Thanks.

Scott



From Tony.Rudie at fmr.com  Thu Nov 15 12:48:27 2007
From: Tony.Rudie at fmr.com (Rudie, Tony)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:48:27 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
Message-ID: <825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE0A24520C@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>

The relevant analogy is that betamax really was better than VHS.  And yet...

----- Original Message -----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org <bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org>
To: bblisa at bblisa.org <bblisa at bblisa.org>
Sent: Thu Nov 15 11:30:52 2007
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)

I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and hates Linux. 
I'd like to get insight from the list of viewpoints, security, comparisons, 
package availability, etc, of the differences between the basic worlds of 
UNIX-like distros.

Second, what are the differences among Open/Free/Net BSD?

I'm not calling for any wars.   I'm looking for genuine education to understand 
the worlds between Linux and BSD, and then among the BSD distros.

Thanks.

Scott

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa


From km3t at km3t.org  Thu Nov 15 13:16:59 2007
From: km3t at km3t.org (Dave Pascoe)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:16:59 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <473C8D1B.7000808@km3t.org>

There are lots of online resources for this.  Bottom line...use the best
tool for the job at hand, whenever you can.  I know many will offer
their opinions, and this is a good list to trust for a balanced view.

The reality is that many of those who seem very religious (and vocal)
about one OS or another typically are just that.  Sometimes it truly is
for some good reasons, sometimes people just like what they know.

Do broad research and testing - and then make your own choices.  There
isn't always one answer.

Dave



Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and hates
> Linux. I'd like to get insight from the list of viewpoints, security,
> comparisons, package availability, etc, of the differences between the
> basic worlds of UNIX-like distros.
> 
> Second, what are the differences among Open/Free/Net BSD?
> 
> I'm not calling for any wars.   I'm looking for genuine education to
> understand the worlds between Linux and BSD, and then among the BSD
> distros.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott



From bblisa-in at crash.com  Thu Nov 15 14:34:07 2007
From: bblisa-in at crash.com (Steven M Jones)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:34:07 -0800
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <473C9F2F.2030505@crash.com>

Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and
> hates Linux. I'd like to get insight from the list of viewpoints,
> security, comparisons, package availability, etc, of the differences
> between the basic worlds of UNIX-like distros.

First lesson I'm sure you already know -- you can't treat "Linux" as a
monolithic offering. There are hundreds of different Linux
distributions. Some very similar, some dissimilar, and others which have
nothing but the kernel family in common.

I'll second what Dave Pascoe wrote: Find the best tool for the job.
Don't forget to include supportability in your evaluation -- will you be
able to keep the platform up to date, get new drivers you're likely to
need, be able to integrate it into your environment, etc etc.


NetBSD, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD all sprang from the 386BSD work by the
Jolitz' in roughly that order, though Open was a fork from Net as I
recall. 386BSD was 4.4BSD-Lite from UC Berkeley, where Bill Jolitz wrote
enough code for the x86 to produce a bootable package by replacing the
bits that had been removed after the lawsuits with AT&T/Unix Systems
Labs (USL) were over. He also packaged it all up so that it could be
installed on your average 386 PC clone.

That's probably an understatement of what Bill and Lynn did, but
captures the impact -- it was the first freely available open source BSD
you could run on commodity hardware. I can't stress enough what a step
forward this was. Linux had been created at this point but was nowhere
near ready for prime time, while 386BSD was built on more than 10 years
of production and research use of BSD in academia and industry.

NetBSD focuses on portability and very broad platform support. It runs
on the most systems, was first to have IPv6 support, and is frequently
used in academic projects and other research. My recollection is that
NetBSD was the first to split off when Bill was slow to release updates
to 386BSD in 1992.

FreeBSD branched for stability purposes, to provide something you could
reliably operate a business on. It also remained focused on x86 longer,
so it added SMP support before the others. It is widely regarded as the
most stable BSD platform and has fueled startups like Google, Hotmail, etc.

OpenBSD focused on security and is usually considered the most
"hardened" option out of the box, though all can be made secure. It's a
very popular choice for firewall and Internet-facing applications, and
sometimes has an edge in wireless networking support among the BSDs. You
can find much drama about how OpenBSD split off from NetBSD with a
simple Google search.

These variants have diverged over the past ~15 years, but you will often
see drivers ported from one to another, and sometimes whole kernel
subsystems will be adopted and integrated.


I generally prefer FreeBSD (or Solaris) for server roles, for the sake
of stability and manageability. That includes using FreeBSD for
firewalls and web servers. However I'm really disappointed that I can't
have FreeBSD as the host OS for Xen... When I complain about that to
other FreeBSD users, the usual response I get is that jails are meeting
most peoples' needs.

I have been using RedHat/Fedora for years now for desktop and laptop
applications. It's just been easier to do that and usually have
everything ready out of the box with all manner of add-ons (Acrobat,
Flash, etc) without a lot of fuss. Many years ago (2000) I used RedHat
for all production uses in a startup, and it met those needs adequately.


Wow, what a lot of hot air! Hope this was at least amusing or
entertaining for the list.

--Steve.



From bob at sinister.com  Thu Nov 15 15:16:14 2007
From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:16:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <473C9F2F.2030505@crash.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
	<473C9F2F.2030505@crash.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0711151501320.24723@dark.sinister.com>



On Thu, 15 Nov 2007, Steven M Jones wrote:

> Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> > I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and
> > hates Linux.

Yes, there seems to be one in every crowd.

>> I'd like to get insight from the list of viewpoints,
> > security, comparisons, package availability, etc, of the differences
> > between the basic worlds of UNIX-like distros.
>
> First lesson I'm sure you already know -- you can't treat "Linux" as a
> monolithic offering. There are hundreds of different Linux
> distributions. Some very similar, some dissimilar, and others which have
> nothing but the kernel family in common.

Well said!

> I'll second what Dave Pascoe wrote: Find the best tool for the job.
> Don't forget to include supportability in your evaluation -- will you be
> able to keep the platform up to date, get new drivers you're likely to
> need, be able to integrate it into your environment, etc etc.

In the past, Linux was famous for lots and lots of available software.
FreeBSD was known for its tight integration and focus on x86 (though it
has expanded beyond x86). NetBSD was known for its conservative design and
that it ran everywhere ("Of course it runs NetBSD!"), whereas OpenBSD was
based upon the premise of security first.

Over time, things have changed. Linux now runs on more platforms than
NetBSD. OpenBSD has become far more user-friendly. FreeBSD has ventured
out from x86. NetBSD changed its logo.

Linux (both the kernel and OSs which use it) has become much more solid
than it was in the days when FreeBSD could claim that as an advantage.

OpenBSD as a project has done much for the world, such as spawning
OpenSSH, now used everywhere. They've also been very forceful and zealous
about what constitutes open source, in that they will not accept 'binary
objects' from vendors for inclusion into the operating system. Sometimes
this can be a pain in the ass, but the work that these developers has done
to create drivers without kowtowing the vendors shows in the finished
product.

Right now, I can think of only one personal reason for using BSD, and that
is that the wifi subsystem in Linux is undergoing major changes, and there
are some long unfixed bugs which may cause some users with special uses
some great concern (ad-hoc mode on atheros, for instance). In this
situation, the BSDs are in far less tumult. There may be other reasons for
choosing BSD as well, but none that rank very high in my estimation. This
is not to say that they are inferior operating systems. I have experience
with all three (particularly OpenBSD) and they have their strengths, but
for my specific purposes, and in general, I see no reason to switch from
Linux. I'll stay with Debian/Ubuntu, unless there's a reason to pick
another OS.



From someara at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 16:17:16 2007
From: someara at gmail.com (Sean OMeara)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:17:16 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0711151501320.24723@dark.sinister.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
	<473C9F2F.2030505@crash.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0711151501320.24723@dark.sinister.com>
Message-ID: <5a1a3bcd0711151317x5231e23atde168a5e9a181c73@mail.gmail.com>

Screw them both... SCO is the one true unix!!!

**ducks**


-s


> > Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> > > I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and
> > > hates Linux.



From dean at av8.com  Thu Nov 15 22:50:03 2007
From: dean at av8.com (Dean Anderson)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:50:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <473C9F2F.2030505@crash.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711152243060.23171-100000@citation2.av8.net>

Good history!

I concur completely with these conclusions, except I'm not convinced
about openbsd security---security is the goal---but its basically just
SunOS 4.1.3 retrogrades. And I note that you _still_ can't get a good
linux NFS server. Linux servers are fine for other things, web, mysql,
afs, etc.

I've also been running Aurora Linux (fedora something...never quite in
sync with the regular fedora releases) on sparcs.  Its faster than
solaris, but I'm running opensolaris on my desktop at home. Still can't
beat solaris on the desktop---linux is just going the wrong way.

		--Dean

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007, Steven M Jones wrote:
> 
> I generally prefer FreeBSD (or Solaris) for server roles, for the sake
> of stability and manageability. That includes using FreeBSD for
> firewalls and web servers. However I'm really disappointed that I can't
> have FreeBSD as the host OS for Xen... When I complain about that to
> other FreeBSD users, the usual response I get is that jails are meeting
> most peoples' needs.
>
> I have been using RedHat/Fedora for years now for desktop and laptop
> applications. It's just been easier to do that and usually have
> everything ready out of the box with all manner of add-ons (Acrobat,
> Flash, etc) without a lot of fuss. Many years ago (2000) I used RedHat
> for all production uses in a startup, and it met those needs adequately.
> 
> 
> Wow, what a lot of hot air! Hope this was at least amusing or
> entertaining for the list.
> 
> --Steve.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
> 
> 

-- 
Av8 Internet   Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
www.av8.net         faster, more reliable, better service
617 344 9000   





From bblisa2 at nedharvey.com  Thu Nov 15 22:52:58 2007
From: bblisa2 at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:52:58 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <009901c82804$2dc0cf10$89426d30$@com>

The differences between all of these are generally driven by differences in
philosophy or specific legal matters.  They're all pretty good.

But here's my 2-second comparison:

OpenBSD is the most stable and secure of the lot, because their philosophy
generally favors stability, and slower releases of new support for
newfangled things like USB.  They're famous for an independent line-by-line
security audit.

NetBSD is somewhere in the middleground of the BSD's.

FreeBSD is the most advanced of the BSD's, and although it's a very stable
secure OS, it might be argued that it's less stable & secure than either Net
or Open, in exchange for better support for newer hardware and stuff.

Linux distributions have as many different flavors and more.  But since some
linux distros are individually more widely deployed than any of the BSD's,
linux distros are able to cover some ground that the BSD's don't.  If you
require the newest bleeding edge, it's common somebody's built it and
written a webpage about it for Linux, but not for any BSD.  Just cuz it's
more popular.  Also most linux distros have better software availability
than the BSD's.  (By software availability, I'm talking about precompiled,
readily available binary packages specific for your OS.  Because sometimes
building from source is very hard.)  Put simply, linux is more popular
because it's more popular. 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:31 AM
> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame
> war!)
> 
> I'm in a class at Usenix/Lisa and the instructor is a BSD fan and hates
> Linux.
> I'd like to get insight from the list of viewpoints, security,
> comparisons,
> package availability, etc, of the differences between the basic worlds
> of
> UNIX-like distros.
> 
> Second, what are the differences among Open/Free/Net BSD?
> 
> I'm not calling for any wars.   I'm looking for genuine education to
> understand
> the worlds between Linux and BSD, and then among the BSD distros.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From gumen at nedharvey.com  Thu Nov 15 22:58:06 2007
From: gumen at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:58:06 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0711152243060.23171-100000@citation2.av8.net>
References: <473C9F2F.2030505@crash.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0711152243060.23171-100000@citation2.av8.net>
Message-ID: <009b01c82804$e74a8520$b5df8f60$@com>

Actually, I will second that notion - For whatever reason, the Linux NFS
server is just plain slow, no matter how you tweak it.  Solaris is much
better at NFS.

Also, I've heard from this list that Solaris ZFS is awesome, while I will
admit that Ext3 and UFS are somewhat feature lacking.  (Do the BSD's still
use UFS?  That was a few years ago when I used it.)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On
> Behalf Of Dean Anderson
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:50 PM
> To: Steven M Jones
> Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org; Scott Ehrlich
> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame
> war!)
> 
> Good history!
> 
> I concur completely with these conclusions, except I'm not convinced
> about openbsd security---security is the goal---but its basically just
> SunOS 4.1.3 retrogrades. And I note that you _still_ can't get a good
> linux NFS server. Linux servers are fine for other things, web, mysql,
> afs, etc.
> 
> I've also been running Aurora Linux (fedora something...never quite in
> sync with the regular fedora releases) on sparcs.  Its faster than
> solaris, but I'm running opensolaris on my desktop at home. Still can't
> beat solaris on the desktop---linux is just going the wrong way.
> 
> 		--Dean
> 
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007, Steven M Jones wrote:
> >
> > I generally prefer FreeBSD (or Solaris) for server roles, for the
> sake
> > of stability and manageability. That includes using FreeBSD for
> > firewalls and web servers. However I'm really disappointed that I
> can't
> > have FreeBSD as the host OS for Xen... When I complain about that to
> > other FreeBSD users, the usual response I get is that jails are
> meeting
> > most peoples' needs.
> >
> > I have been using RedHat/Fedora for years now for desktop and laptop
> > applications. It's just been easier to do that and usually have
> > everything ready out of the box with all manner of add-ons (Acrobat,
> > Flash, etc) without a lot of fuss. Many years ago (2000) I used
> RedHat
> > for all production uses in a startup, and it met those needs
> adequately.
> >
> >
> > Wow, what a lot of hot air! Hope this was at least amusing or
> > entertaining for the list.
> >
> > --Steve.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bblisa mailing list
> > bblisa at bblisa.org
> > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Av8 Internet   Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
> www.av8.net         faster, more reliable, better service
> 617 344 9000
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From bob at sinister.com  Fri Nov 16 01:02:50 2007
From: bob at sinister.com (Bob Keyes)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:02:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: <009901c82804$2dc0cf10$89426d30$@com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
	<009901c82804$2dc0cf10$89426d30$@com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0711160054310.15953@dark.sinister.com>



On Thu, 15 Nov 2007, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

> Linux distributions have as many different flavors and more.  But since some
> linux distros are individually more widely deployed than any of the BSD's,
> linux distros are able to cover some ground that the BSD's don't.  If you
> require the newest bleeding edge, it's common somebody's built it and
> written a webpage about it for Linux, but not for any BSD.  Just cuz it's
> more popular.  Also most linux distros have better software availability
> than the BSD's.  (By software availability, I'm talking about precompiled,
> readily available binary packages specific for your OS.  Because sometimes
> building from source is very hard.)  Put simply, linux is more popular
> because it's more popular.

I should point out that many Linux applications can be run in FreeBSD (and
I think the other BSDs as well, but I am not sure) under Linux emulation.
This isn't as slow as running a virtual machine - the actual Linux
libraries are installed into BSD and used. This can be very useful.

The note about Linux being more popular because it's more popular is true,
but there's also more to it than that. The differing licenses, BSD and
GPL, appeal differently to different people. It appears that more
developers prefer GPL. But this is not to say that BSD is not popular or
successful. I would say that both BSD and Linux camps would say that they
have succeeded.

What I am working on right now involves embedded systems. Once you start
dealing with some really small systems (8mb of flash and 16mb of ram)
Linux really wins out over BSD. FreeBSD can be gracefully minimized for
smaller systems, but only to a point. Linux, with uClibc and busybox, does
what BSD seems to be unable and unwilling to do. I will freely admit that
embedded systems are pretty much the opposite end of the scale of
interest to most people on this mailing list.



From hag at linnaean.org  Fri Nov 16 16:10:23 2007
From: hag at linnaean.org (Daniel Hagerty)
Date: 16 Nov 2007 16:10:23 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Comparison of BSD vs Linux? (here goes the flame war!)
In-Reply-To: Bob Keyes's message of "Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:02:50 -0500 (EST)"
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711151130390.24737@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
	<009901c82804$2dc0cf10$89426d30$@com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58L0.0711160054310.15953@dark.sinister.com>
Message-ID: <c2ioddt7v7k.fsf@perdition.linnaean.org>

Bob Keyes <bob at sinister.com> writes:

> What I am working on right now involves embedded systems. Once you start
> dealing with some really small systems (8mb of flash and 16mb of ram)
> Linux really wins out over BSD. FreeBSD can be gracefully minimized for
> smaller systems, but only to a point. Linux, with uClibc and busybox, does
> what BSD seems to be unable and unwilling to do. I will freely admit that
> embedded systems are pretty much the opposite end of the scale of
> interest to most people on this mailing list.

    Several vendors have shipped commercial appliances around *BSD.

    The *BSD equivelent of busybox is called crunch; they have some
other tools, but it's been a long time since I've been here.

    Note that busybox + linux's typical GPLed userland + proprietary
software is a recipe for GPL'ed no longer pproprietary software; an
obvious problem for some applications.

    While there exist escape techniques to avoid the viral GPL
problem, they're directly opposed to producing the smallest possible
embedded system.  No need for us to go into the religious issues of
licensing; just pointing out that different people with different
needs have been here, and there are more tools than you seem to be
aware of.



From tmetro+bblisa at vl.com  Fri Nov 16 17:37:00 2007
From: tmetro+bblisa at vl.com (Tom Metro)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:37:00 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
Message-ID: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com>

How about setting up a LinkedIn group for BBLISA? (LinkedIn is a social 
networking site for professionals.)

Your direct LinkedIn network is supposed to consist of people that 
you've worked with before and can vouch for. In contrast, user group 
connections are like 2nd level contacts (people you know through other 
people). So networking via a user group broadens your network without 
violating that principle.

http://www.linkedin.com/home?myGroups

  -Tom

-- 
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/



From bblisa-in at crash.com  Fri Nov 16 18:08:38 2007
From: bblisa-in at crash.com (Steven M Jones)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:08:38 -0800
Subject: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
In-Reply-To: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com>
References: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com>
Message-ID: <473E22F6.6080707@crash.com>

Tom Metro wrote:
> How about setting up a LinkedIn group for BBLISA?

That sounds like a great idea. But I have to say it looks like the
groups feature is either only half-baked, or oriented more towards
dues-collecting organizations. I couldn't see a way to search for a
group, for instance, and the ones that were present in the Professional
category were more like LOPSA.

However, I don't see anything in the creation screen that would rule out
BBLISA. Does somebody who still lives within a couple hundred miles of
the Back Bay want to handle the creation? ;^)

--Steve.

Steve Jones
Berkeley, CA



From tmetro+bblisa at vl.com  Fri Nov 16 21:15:08 2007
From: tmetro+bblisa at vl.com (Tom Metro)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:15:08 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
In-Reply-To: <473E22F6.6080707@crash.com>
References: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com> <473E22F6.6080707@crash.com>
Message-ID: <473E4EAC.7040808@vl.com>

Steven M Jones wrote:
> But I have to say it looks like the groups feature is either only
> half-baked, or oriented more towards dues-collecting organizations.

I hadn't looked at the directory of groups before, but I see there is a 
note saying they aren't currently accepting new groups into the 
directory. But that doesn't impact the ability to create a new group. It 
wouldn't surprise me if they charge a fee for inclusion in the directory.


> However, I don't see anything in the creation screen that would rule out
> BBLISA. 

Correct. BBLISA should qualify fine. I recently created groups for BLU 
and Boston Perl Mongers.

Setting up the group just takes a few minutes to fill in the title, 
description, and an email address for group join requests. The most 
difficult step might be digging up a logo with the required dimensions.

You can optionally upload a list of member email addresses so that 
they'll be pre-approved when they try to join, otherwise the group 
manager gets an email when someone requests admission. (Fir simplicity 
and privacy reasons we chose to do the latter for the above two groups.)

  -Tom

-- 
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/



From Tony.Rudie at fmr.com  Mon Nov 19 09:05:51 2007
From: Tony.Rudie at fmr.com (Rudie, Tony)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:05:51 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
References: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com> <473E22F6.6080707@crash.com>
	<473E4EAC.7040808@vl.com>
Message-ID: <825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE0A24521A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>

I live 2 blocks from the Back Bay, but I vote for Tom to be the group manager for LinkedIn BBLISA.  If he's willing to do that for us. 


 - Tony Rudi? 

-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Metro
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 9:15 PM
To: L-bblisa
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA

Steven M Jones wrote:
> But I have to say it looks like the groups feature is either only
> half-baked, or oriented more towards dues-collecting organizations.

I hadn't looked at the directory of groups before, but I see there is a 
note saying they aren't currently accepting new groups into the 
directory. But that doesn't impact the ability to create a new group. It 
wouldn't surprise me if they charge a fee for inclusion in the directory.


> However, I don't see anything in the creation screen that would rule out
> BBLISA. 

Correct. BBLISA should qualify fine. I recently created groups for BLU 
and Boston Perl Mongers.

Setting up the group just takes a few minutes to fill in the title, 
description, and an email address for group join requests. The most 
difficult step might be digging up a logo with the required dimensions.

You can optionally upload a list of member email addresses so that 
they'll be pre-approved when they try to join, otherwise the group 
manager gets an email when someone requests admission. (Fir simplicity 
and privacy reasons we chose to do the latter for the above two groups.)

  -Tom

-- 
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From dave at dpallan.com  Mon Nov 19 10:34:08 2007
From: dave at dpallan.com (David Allan)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:34:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
In-Reply-To: <825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE0A24521A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>
References: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com> <473E22F6.6080707@crash.com>
	<473E4EAC.7040808@vl.com>
	<825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE0A24521A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>
Message-ID: <20071119103352.Y74431@kaazh.pair.com>

If he's willing to set it up, I think having a LinkedIn group is a great 
idea.

Dave


On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Rudie, Tony wrote:

> I live 2 blocks from the Back Bay, but I vote for Tom to be the group manager for LinkedIn BBLISA.  If he's willing to do that for us.
>
>
> - Tony Rudi?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf Of Tom Metro
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 9:15 PM
> To: L-bblisa
> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
>
> Steven M Jones wrote:
>> But I have to say it looks like the groups feature is either only
>> half-baked, or oriented more towards dues-collecting organizations.
>
> I hadn't looked at the directory of groups before, but I see there is a
> note saying they aren't currently accepting new groups into the
> directory. But that doesn't impact the ability to create a new group. It
> wouldn't surprise me if they charge a fee for inclusion in the directory.
>
>
>> However, I don't see anything in the creation screen that would rule out
>> BBLISA.
>
> Correct. BBLISA should qualify fine. I recently created groups for BLU
> and Boston Perl Mongers.
>
> Setting up the group just takes a few minutes to fill in the title,
> description, and an email address for group join requests. The most
> difficult step might be digging up a logo with the required dimensions.
>
> You can optionally upload a list of member email addresses so that
> they'll be pre-approved when they try to join, otherwise the group
> manager gets an email when someone requests admission. (Fir simplicity
> and privacy reasons we chose to do the latter for the above two groups.)
>
>  -Tom
>
> -- 
> Tom Metro
> Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
> "Enterprise solutions through open source."
> Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>

From scott at MIT.EDU  Mon Nov 19 11:58:36 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:58:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>

Now that I'm back at work, I reviewed the restore man page and some other web 
pages on restore, and want to verify:

I'm in a scratch/temp directory, and type:
restore rf (maybe with i, too) /dev/tape

the result will restore the dump to the current scratch/temp location so 
nothing in the active filesystem is overwritten?

If true, I'll test it asap.

Please advise.

Thanks.

Scott



From dave at dpallan.com  Mon Nov 19 12:08:13 2007
From: dave at dpallan.com (David Allan)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:08:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <20071119120718.S74431@kaazh.pair.com>

I'd strongly advise trying this (and everything else) out on a 
non-production server until you get the hang of it.  That might be a 
problem if you don't have a tape unit available, but it's the safest path.

Dave


On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Scott Ehrlich wrote:

> Now that I'm back at work, I reviewed the restore man page and some other web 
> pages on restore, and want to verify:
>
> I'm in a scratch/temp directory, and type:
> restore rf (maybe with i, too) /dev/tape
>
> the result will restore the dump to the current scratch/temp location so 
> nothing in the active filesystem is overwritten?
>
> If true, I'll test it asap.
>
> Please advise.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From bblisa-in at crash.com  Mon Nov 19 12:33:04 2007
From: bblisa-in at crash.com (Steven M Jones)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:33:04 -0800
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
In-Reply-To: <20071119120718.S74431@kaazh.pair.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
	<20071119120718.S74431@kaazh.pair.com>
Message-ID: <4741C8D0.5050006@crash.com>

David Allan wrote:
> I'd strongly advise trying this (and everything else) out on a
> non-production server until you get the hang of it.  That might be a
> problem if you don't have a tape unit available, but it's the safest
> path.

Good point Dave. Any same-flavor *nix box should do -- another RedHat
box on your desk, for instance.

If tape drive access is an issue look at rrestore. On most stock RedHat
installations you'll probably have to fiddle with
services/firewall/SElinux/etc, or you could use something akin to this:

hostB# cd /bigdisk/tmp
hostB# ssh hostA dd if=/dev/tape bs=20 | restore rf -

The blocksize ("bs=20" and one block should be 512 bytes) to use
probably depends on your type of tape drive as much as anything else.
Somebody else'll probably chime in on that point.

To use interactive restore ("restore ivf") with a non-local tape drive
you probably need to make rrestore work as I think it needs to rewind
the tape file after file selection.

For that I think you'll need to diddle the boxes until rmt ("Remote MT
protocol" in your /etc/services) works from one to the other. See your
restore man page under discussion of the "-f" flag and see what it says
about "host:/devicefile" access.

--Steve.



From scott at MIT.EDU  Mon Nov 19 12:35:03 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:35:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
In-Reply-To: <4741C8D0.5050006@crash.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
	<20071119120718.S74431@kaazh.pair.com> <4741C8D0.5050006@crash.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191234420.24113@no-knife.mit.edu>

I'm doing a test dump/restore on another system now.  Yes, great point!

Thanks.

Scott

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Steven M Jones wrote:

> David Allan wrote:
>> I'd strongly advise trying this (and everything else) out on a
>> non-production server until you get the hang of it.  That might be a
>> problem if you don't have a tape unit available, but it's the safest
>> path.
>
> Good point Dave. Any same-flavor *nix box should do -- another RedHat
> box on your desk, for instance.
>
> If tape drive access is an issue look at rrestore. On most stock RedHat
> installations you'll probably have to fiddle with
> services/firewall/SElinux/etc, or you could use something akin to this:
>
> hostB# cd /bigdisk/tmp
> hostB# ssh hostA dd if=/dev/tape bs=20 | restore rf -
>
> The blocksize ("bs=20" and one block should be 512 bytes) to use
> probably depends on your type of tape drive as much as anything else.
> Somebody else'll probably chime in on that point.
>
> To use interactive restore ("restore ivf") with a non-local tape drive
> you probably need to make rrestore work as I think it needs to rewind
> the tape file after file selection.
>
> For that I think you'll need to diddle the boxes until rmt ("Remote MT
> protocol" in your /etc/services) works from one to the other. See your
> restore man page under discussion of the "-f" flag and see what it says
> about "host:/devicefile" access.
>
> --Steve.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From oneill at oinc.net  Mon Nov 19 13:15:18 2007
From: oneill at oinc.net (Brian O'Neill)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:15:18 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <4741D2B6.2090209@oinc.net>

It's been years since I've used dump/restore, and I can't say I've used 
it on Linux, but as far as I know its still got its BSD roots.

"i", "x" and "r" should be mutually exclusive options.

"i" is for an interactive restore, where you can pick and choose files 
and directories.

"x" is to extract either everything or a named path. I rarely used this 
option.

"r" is to restore the whole filesystem. A checkpoint file is maintained 
(restoresymtable I believe) that allows for restoring a full dump, then 
incrementals, and properly removing files that no longer existed at the 
time of the incremental. This is what you want to use if you are 
restoring the whole filesystem, especially if you need to restore a set 
of incrementals.

restore always extracted to current directory.

It looks like Linux also supports a -N option, which will not actually 
write to any files on the filesystem.


Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> Now that I'm back at work, I reviewed the restore man page and some 
> other web pages on restore, and want to verify:
> 
> I'm in a scratch/temp directory, and type:
> restore rf (maybe with i, too) /dev/tape
> 
> the result will restore the dump to the current scratch/temp location so 
> nothing in the active filesystem is overwritten?
> 
> If true, I'll test it asap.
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From jco at direwolf.com  Mon Nov 19 13:54:17 2007
From: jco at direwolf.com (John Orthoefer)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:54:17 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
In-Reply-To: <4741D2B6.2090209@oinc.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
	<4741D2B6.2090209@oinc.net>
Message-ID: <4741DBD9.90703@direwolf.com>

Brian O'Neill wrote:
>
> "r" is to restore the whole filesystem. A checkpoint file is 
> maintained (restoresymtable I believe) that allows for restoring a 
> full dump, then incrementals, and properly removing files that no 
> longer existed at the time of the incremental. This is what you want 
> to use if you are restoring the whole filesystem, especially if you 
> need to restore a set of incrementals.

This must be a new feature of the -r option.  Because no version of 
restore I've ever used could do that.  Use to be restore would get you a 
superset of files, all the files, + all the deleted files picked up on 
the restore unless there was a name collision.  Which use to cause 
problems when you where trying to restore an almost full disk. 

johno




From oneill at oinc.net  Mon Nov 19 14:01:09 2007
From: oneill at oinc.net (Brian O'Neill)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:01:09 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: untested backups
In-Reply-To: <4741DBD9.90703@direwolf.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711191158200.21126@no-knife.mit.edu>
	<4741D2B6.2090209@oinc.net> <4741DBD9.90703@direwolf.com>
Message-ID: <4741DD75.7030100@oinc.net>

John Orthoefer wrote:
> Brian O'Neill wrote:
>>
>> "r" is to restore the whole filesystem. A checkpoint file is 
>> maintained (restoresymtable I believe) that allows for restoring a 
>> full dump, then incrementals, and properly removing files that no 
>> longer existed at the time of the incremental. This is what you want 
>> to use if you are restoring the whole filesystem, especially if you 
>> need to restore a set of incrementals.
> 
> This must be a new feature of the -r option.  Because no version of 
> restore I've ever used could do that.  Use to be restore would get you a 
> superset of files, all the files, + all the deleted files picked up on 
> the restore unless there was a name collision.  Which use to cause 
> problems when you where trying to restore an almost full disk.
> johno
> 

As I said, its been years since I've used it, but I believe that was the 
whole purpose of it. The problem was that it "cleaned up" the filesystem 
AFTER it restored all the new files, so you could easily fill up the 
filesystem during the restore.

-Brian



From tmetro+bblisa at vl.com  Mon Nov 19 15:37:52 2007
From: tmetro+bblisa at vl.com (Tom Metro)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:37:52 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] LinkedIn group for BBLISA
In-Reply-To: <20071119103352.Y74431@kaazh.pair.com>
References: <473E1B8C.90307@vl.com>
	<473E22F6.6080707@crash.com>	<473E4EAC.7040808@vl.com>	<825D4225D181F94192D39ED60C4999DE0A24521A@MSGMROCLF2WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM>
	<20071119103352.Y74431@kaazh.pair.com>
Message-ID: <4741F420.2040705@vl.com>

David Allan wrote:
> If he's willing to set it up, I think having a LinkedIn group is a great 
> idea.

Rudie, Tony wrote:
> ...but I vote for Tom to be the group manager for LinkedIn BBLISA.
>  If he's willing to do that for us.

Yeah, I'm happy to set it up. I sent a few question on logos and a 
preferred contact address for the group to Adam Moskowitz off-list.

I'll post an announcement once it's set up.

  -Tom

-- 
Tom Metro
Venture Logic, Newton, MA, USA
"Enterprise solutions through open source."
Professional Profile: http://tmetro.venturelogic.com/



From bblisa2 at nedharvey.com  Mon Nov 19 16:00:24 2007
From: bblisa2 at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:00:24 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
Message-ID: <011701c82aef$35113690$9f33a3b0$@com>

Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.  The
question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.  Enough
to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit, against
24port managed gigabit.

If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and remain
operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at all times
with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure, and I RMA the
device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour, while Dell
RMA is NBD.

But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would crash.
I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now it's
unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network hardware.
It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
resolved.

Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work without
problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic across the
network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash? 



From nicholas.kathmann at kathmannconsulting.com  Mon Nov 19 18:48:26 2007
From: nicholas.kathmann at kathmannconsulting.com (Nicholas Kathmann)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:48:26 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
In-Reply-To: <011701c82aef$35113690$9f33a3b0$@com>
References: <011701c82aef$35113690$9f33a3b0$@com>
Message-ID: <474220CA.5060605@kathmannconsulting.com>

I had similar problems with the Dell switches.  When Blaster / Nachi hit 
way back when, we were the WAN hub of communications.  Only 6 systems on 
the local LANs were infected, but every one of the sites connected to us 
had major infections.  Just the ICMP traffic through the small WAN 
circuits was enough to lock up every one of the Dell switches, including 
the ones built into the Poweredge 1655MC blades.  They had to be powered 
down then powered up, which meant in the blades, someone had to 
physically go to the back of the racks and pull the switch modules out 
one by one.  Dell was aware of the problem back then, but didn't have a 
resolution for it.  When the Dell blades were decommissioned 3 years 
later, out of curiosity I decided to check again, and still no updates.  
That's my major grudge with Dell switches.

Depending on how many you plan on deploying and for what, Cisco has some 
really nice features that you will probably not want to live without.  
The main one for me is VTP (VLAN Trunk Protocol), which is a Cisco 
proprietary protocol that communicates the VLAN info back to all of the 
switches.  This means that if you have many switches (even into the 
1000+ range), you can create the VLAN once, in one place, and have all 
of the switches immediately pick it up.  Other options like the features 
for Cisco NAC (Network Admission Control) etc are built into many of 
their switches, the Cisco IP Phones use the auxilary VLAN info from the 
Cisco switches to get their voice VLAN configurations, the Cisco 
wireless APs and wireless IP phones use CDP (Cisco Discovery Protocol) 
to get their VLAN info, etc.  If you are planning on having a large 
network with many different mediums served, I would stick with all 
Cisco.  If you are going to have just one or two switches, even with 
heavy NFS traffic, Dell is probably fine.  If you need multiple switches 
with the ability to scale, I would go with Cisco.

Thanks,
Nick

Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.  The
> question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.  Enough
> to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit, against
> 24port managed gigabit.
>
> If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and remain
> operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at all times
> with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure, and I RMA the
> device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour, while Dell
> RMA is NBD.
>
> But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would crash.
> I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now it's
> unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network hardware.
> It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
> resolved.
>
> Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work without
> problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic across the
> network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash? 
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
>
>   





From bblisa2 at nedharvey.com  Mon Nov 19 22:24:15 2007
From: bblisa2 at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:24:15 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
In-Reply-To: <4741FA5A.6030007@km3t.org>
References: <011701c82aef$35113690$9f33a3b0$@com> <4741FA5A.6030007@km3t.org>
Message-ID: <003401c82b24$d46f9a80$7d4ecf80$@com>

Y'know, I've always liked netgear switches myself, but I didn't know they
made managed switches.  So I'll look into that as well.  

Thanks...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Pascoe [mailto:km3t at km3t.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:04 PM
> To: Edward Ned Harvey
> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
> 
> I know you're only looking at Cisco and Dell.  Don't overlook Netgear -
> I used to snub them but after testing their newer lines of switches
> find
> them to be really nice.  And stable.  The managed switches are actually
> affordable and feature rich.
> 
> I've used almost all the major manufacturers and have done work in some
> heavy duty environments...so my recommendation isn't coming from left
> field.  :-)
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.  The
> > question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.
> Enough
> > to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit,
> against
> > 24port managed gigabit.
> >
> > If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and remain
> > operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at all
> times
> > with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure, and I
> RMA the
> > device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour,
> while Dell
> > RMA is NBD.
> >
> > But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would
> crash.
> > I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now
> it's
> > unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network
> hardware.
> > It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
> > resolved.
> >
> > Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work
> without
> > problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic
> across the
> > network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > bblisa mailing list
> > bblisa at bblisa.org
> > http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From sgw at wadlow.net  Tue Nov 20 00:34:58 2007
From: sgw at wadlow.net (stephen g. wadlow)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:34:58 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
In-Reply-To: <003401c82b24$d46f9a80$7d4ecf80$@com>
References: <011701c82aef$35113690$9f33a3b0$@com> <4741FA5A.6030007@km3t.org>
	<003401c82b24$d46f9a80$7d4ecf80$@com>
Message-ID: <3D5D2D3E-97F7-42AD-BD18-14918B1E7A34@wadlow.net>

I've had quite the opposite experience.   I don't think I've worked  
with a netgear switch (old or new) that didn't freak out and need to  
be rebooted on a regular basis.

I've become something of a fan of Foundry FastIrons over the last few  
years.   They're solid, manageable, and typically much cheaper than a  
"comparable" cisco, moreso on the grey market.

						-steve


On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

> Y'know, I've always liked netgear switches myself, but I didn't  
> know they
> made managed switches.  So I'll look into that as well.
>
> Thanks...
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Pascoe [mailto:km3t at km3t.org]
>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:04 PM
>> To: Edward Ned Harvey
>> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
>>
>> I know you're only looking at Cisco and Dell.  Don't overlook  
>> Netgear -
>> I used to snub them but after testing their newer lines of switches
>> find
>> them to be really nice.  And stable.  The managed switches are  
>> actually
>> affordable and feature rich.
>>
>> I've used almost all the major manufacturers and have done work in  
>> some
>> heavy duty environments...so my recommendation isn't coming from left
>> field.  :-)
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>> Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.  The
>>> question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.
>> Enough
>>> to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit,
>> against
>>> 24port managed gigabit.
>>>
>>> If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and  
>>> remain
>>> operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at  
>>> all
>> times
>>> with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure, and I
>> RMA the
>>> device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour,
>> while Dell
>>> RMA is NBD.
>>>
>>> But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would
>> crash.
>>> I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now
>> it's
>>> unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network
>> hardware.
>>> It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
>>> resolved.
>>>
>>> Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work
>> without
>>> problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic
>> across the
>>> network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bblisa mailing list
>>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Tue Nov 20 12:52:22 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:52:22 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <20071120170003.6890C7703C@bblisa.bblisa.org>
References: <20071120170003.6890C7703C@bblisa.bblisa.org>
Message-ID: <006f01c82b9e$1aacf9b0$5006ed10$@costa1@verizon.net>

I worked for a Hosting company in the past  that used DELL switches mostly
for the cabinet or cages.  They're not as reliable.  
3Com has made a comeback, since they purchased Huwaei. A boss of mine has
told me he did a lot of jobs pulling old 3Comms as they were
Failure prone.  

One that shows promise for less money than CISCO, and without the annoying
CISCO SmartNet annual re-licensing is HP Procurve.  Price is slightly less
than CISCO and HP is known for making good hardware, no matter the
application.

Tony Costa
tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com my alter ego
tcosta at icbsnet.com my paycheck
1-401-556-7686 mobile


-----Original Message-----
From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf
Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:00 PM
To: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Cisco versus Dell switches (stephen g. wadlow)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:34:58 -0500
From: "stephen g. wadlow" <sgw at wadlow.net>
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
To: Edward Ned Harvey <bblisa2 at nedharvey.com>
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Message-ID: <3D5D2D3E-97F7-42AD-BD18-14918B1E7A34 at wadlow.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I've had quite the opposite experience.   I don't think I've worked  
with a netgear switch (old or new) that didn't freak out and need to  
be rebooted on a regular basis.

I've become something of a fan of Foundry FastIrons over the last few  
years.   They're solid, manageable, and typically much cheaper than a  
"comparable" cisco, moreso on the grey market.

						-steve


On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

> Y'know, I've always liked netgear switches myself, but I didn't  
> know they
> made managed switches.  So I'll look into that as well.
>
> Thanks...
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Pascoe [mailto:km3t at km3t.org]
>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:04 PM
>> To: Edward Ned Harvey
>> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
>>
>> I know you're only looking at Cisco and Dell.  Don't overlook  
>> Netgear -
>> I used to snub them but after testing their newer lines of switches
>> find
>> them to be really nice.  And stable.  The managed switches are  
>> actually
>> affordable and feature rich.
>>
>> I've used almost all the major manufacturers and have done work in  
>> some
>> heavy duty environments...so my recommendation isn't coming from left
>> field.  :-)
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>> Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.  The
>>> question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.
>> Enough
>>> to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit,
>> against
>>> 24port managed gigabit.
>>>
>>> If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and  
>>> remain
>>> operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at  
>>> all
>> times
>>> with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure, and I
>> RMA the
>>> device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour,
>> while Dell
>>> RMA is NBD.
>>>
>>> But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would
>> crash.
>>> I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now
>> it's
>>> unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network
>> hardware.
>>> It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
>>> resolved.
>>>
>>> Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work
>> without
>>> problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic
>> across the
>>> network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bblisa mailing list
>>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
bblisa mailing list
bblisa at bblisa.org
http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa

End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
**************************************



From adamm at menlo.com  Tue Nov 20 15:10:37 2007
From: adamm at menlo.com (Adam Moskowitz)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:10:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] December meeting
Message-ID: <20071120201037.3F4C766C091@hexogen.explosive.net>

Wednesday, December 12, 2007
MIT Building E51, Room 149
7:00  Introductions and announcements
7:30  Formal presentation

LISA 2007 Recap

For those of you who couldn't go to LISA this year, come hear what you
missed. For those of you who did go, please come and share what you
heard and saw and learned.



From scott at MIT.EDU  Fri Nov 23 07:26:06 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:26:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711230719140.21239@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>

So I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core processor desktop to configure.   It 
seems like likely I'd install 32-bit Windows XP on it, with respect to the 
user needing Adobe Acrobat, Illustrator, and Photoshop, along with Matlab 
(which we have Linux versions of) and Mathematica (which we can get Linux 
versions of, too).

But with 32-bit Win XP with SP2, we waste 28 GB, as it can only use 4 GB.

The user is equally Unix-capable, and I could easily install 64-bit 
CentOS, but how could I enable them to fully take advantage of the Adobe 
products on the system natively (i.e w/o using a VM)?

Crossover Office does NOT show the Adobe products as supported apps in 
their tested list.

What to do...

Insights welcome.

Thanks.

Scott



From nfaust at merchantwarehouse.com  Fri Nov 23 12:12:06 2007
From: nfaust at merchantwarehouse.com (Nathan Faust)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:12:06 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711230719140.21239@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711230719140.21239@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <4622D14D213DE342A0478D9030CD892718199291@MI8NYCMAIL01.Mi8.com>


Scott, 

Have you looked into Windows XP x86-64?  If you need to stay in the
Windows world, that would be the way to go.
 
Nathan.
-------------------------------------------
Nathan Faust
Systems Administrator :: Merchant Warehouse
www.MerchantWarehouse.com



 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org 
> [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:26 AM
> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
> 
> So I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core processor desktop to 
> configure.   It 
> seems like likely I'd install 32-bit Windows XP on it, with 
> respect to the user needing Adobe Acrobat, Illustrator, and 
> Photoshop, along with Matlab (which we have Linux versions 
> of) and Mathematica (which we can get Linux versions of, too).
> 
> But with 32-bit Win XP with SP2, we waste 28 GB, as it can 
> only use 4 GB.
> 
> The user is equally Unix-capable, and I could easily install 
> 64-bit CentOS, but how could I enable them to fully take 
> advantage of the Adobe products on the system natively (i.e 
> w/o using a VM)?
> 
> Crossover Office does NOT show the Adobe products as 
> supported apps in their tested list.
> 
> What to do...
> 
> Insights welcome.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
> 



From scott at MIT.EDU  Fri Nov 23 12:16:16 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:16:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
In-Reply-To: <4622D14D213DE342A0478D9030CD892718199291@MI8NYCMAIL01.Mi8.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711230719140.21239@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
	<4622D14D213DE342A0478D9030CD892718199291@MI8NYCMAIL01.Mi8.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231214320.3557@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Nathan Faust wrote:

>
> Scott,
>
> Have you looked into Windows XP x86-64?  If you need to stay in the
> Windows world, that would be the way to go.

I'm looking at everything.  According to the Adobe user forums, though, 
Illustrator, Acrobat, and Photoshop don't seem to play well in the 64-bit 
worlds.  I have a query into Adobe's support for an answer.

Anyone know?   I have Illustrator CS3 and Photoshop CS3 and Acrobat 8.

Thanks.

Scott

>
> Nathan.
> -------------------------------------------
> Nathan Faust
> Systems Administrator :: Merchant Warehouse
> www.MerchantWarehouse.com
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org
>> [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:26 AM
>> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
>> Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
>>
>> So I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core processor desktop to
>> configure.   It
>> seems like likely I'd install 32-bit Windows XP on it, with
>> respect to the user needing Adobe Acrobat, Illustrator, and
>> Photoshop, along with Matlab (which we have Linux versions
>> of) and Mathematica (which we can get Linux versions of, too).
>>
>> But with 32-bit Win XP with SP2, we waste 28 GB, as it can
>> only use 4 GB.
>>
>> The user is equally Unix-capable, and I could easily install
>> 64-bit CentOS, but how could I enable them to fully take
>> advantage of the Adobe products on the system natively (i.e
>> w/o using a VM)?
>>
>> Crossover Office does NOT show the Adobe products as
>> supported apps in their tested list.
>>
>> What to do...
>>
>> Insights welcome.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bblisa mailing list
>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From sean at rentul.net  Fri Nov 23 13:29:40 2007
From: sean at rentul.net (Sean Lutner)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:29:40 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <006f01c82b9e$1aacf9b0$5006ed10$@costa1@verizon.net>
References: <20071120170003.6890C7703C@bblisa.bblisa.org>
	<006f01c82b9e$1aacf9b0$5006ed10$@costa1@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <279E9F57-C211-40BF-8A9C-A220CC91096E@rentul.net>

I would recommend strongly against HP Procurve switches for anything  
other than a doorstop.

I recently watched multiple Procurve switches sporadically reboot  
themselves (multiple times, in an unpredictable fashion), fail to  
provide properly functioning BOOTP helpers, fail to provide sensible  
802.1x configuration options, awful VLAN configuration and generally  
become unstable with small work loads (few dozen machines doing  
automated installs).

Said swtches have since been ripped out and replaced with Cisco and  
life is better now.

On Nov 20, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Antonio Costa wrote:

> I worked for a Hosting company in the past  that used DELL switches  
> mostly
> for the cabinet or cages.  They're not as reliable.
> 3Com has made a comeback, since they purchased Huwaei. A boss of  
> mine has
> told me he did a lot of jobs pulling old 3Comms as they were
> Failure prone.
>
> One that shows promise for less money than CISCO, and without the  
> annoying
> CISCO SmartNet annual re-licensing is HP Procurve.  Price is  
> slightly less
> than CISCO and HP is known for making good hardware, no matter the
> application.
>
> Tony Costa
> tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com my alter ego
> tcosta at icbsnet.com my paycheck
> 1-401-556-7686 mobile
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:00 PM
> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
>
> Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
> 	bblisa at bblisa.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	bblisa-request at bblisa.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	bblisa-owner at bblisa.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of bblisa digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Cisco versus Dell switches (stephen g. wadlow)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:34:58 -0500
> From: "stephen g. wadlow" <sgw at wadlow.net>
> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
> To: Edward Ned Harvey <bblisa2 at nedharvey.com>
> Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Message-ID: <3D5D2D3E-97F7-42AD-BD18-14918B1E7A34 at wadlow.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I've had quite the opposite experience.   I don't think I've worked
> with a netgear switch (old or new) that didn't freak out and need to
> be rebooted on a regular basis.
>
> I've become something of a fan of Foundry FastIrons over the last few
> years.   They're solid, manageable, and typically much cheaper than a
> "comparable" cisco, moreso on the grey market.
>
> 						-steve
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>
>> Y'know, I've always liked netgear switches myself, but I didn't
>> know they
>> made managed switches.  So I'll look into that as well.
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dave Pascoe [mailto:km3t at km3t.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:04 PM
>>> To: Edward Ned Harvey
>>> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
>>>
>>> I know you're only looking at Cisco and Dell.  Don't overlook
>>> Netgear -
>>> I used to snub them but after testing their newer lines of switches
>>> find
>>> them to be really nice.  And stable.  The managed switches are
>>> actually
>>> affordable and feature rich.
>>>
>>> I've used almost all the major manufacturers and have done work in
>>> some
>>> heavy duty environments...so my recommendation isn't coming from  
>>> left
>>> field.  :-)
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>>> Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.   
>>>> The
>>>> question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.
>>> Enough
>>>> to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit,
>>> against
>>>> 24port managed gigabit.
>>>>
>>>> If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and
>>>> remain
>>>> operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at
>>>> all
>>> times
>>>> with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure,  
>>>> and I
>>> RMA the
>>>> device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour,
>>> while Dell
>>>> RMA is NBD.
>>>>
>>>> But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would
>>> crash.
>>>> I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now
>>> it's
>>>> unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network
>>> hardware.
>>>> It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
>>>> resolved.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work
>>> without
>>>> problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic
>>> across the
>>>> network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash?
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> bblisa mailing list
>>>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>>>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bblisa mailing list
>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
> **************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From antonio.costa1 at verizon.net  Fri Nov 23 13:58:42 2007
From: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net (Antonio Costa)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:58:42 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <279E9F57-C211-40BF-8A9C-A220CC91096E@rentul.net>
References: <20071120170003.6890C7703C@bblisa.bblisa.org>
	<006f01c82b9e$1aacf9b0$5006ed10$@costa1@verizon.net>
	<279E9F57-C211-40BF-8A9C-A220CC91096E@rentul.net>
Message-ID: <007f01c82e02$de84da40$9b8e8ec0$@costa1@verizon.net>

Good to know this.  Thanks for the feedback.

So then where would you put your money? 

Tony Costa


-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Lutner [mailto:sean at rentul.net] 
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:30 PM
To: antonio.costa1 at verizon.net
Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
Subject: Re: [BBLISA] RE: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18

I would recommend strongly against HP Procurve switches for anything  
other than a doorstop.

I recently watched multiple Procurve switches sporadically reboot  
themselves (multiple times, in an unpredictable fashion), fail to  
provide properly functioning BOOTP helpers, fail to provide sensible  
802.1x configuration options, awful VLAN configuration and generally  
become unstable with small work loads (few dozen machines doing  
automated installs).

Said swtches have since been ripped out and replaced with Cisco and  
life is better now.

On Nov 20, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Antonio Costa wrote:

> I worked for a Hosting company in the past  that used DELL switches  
> mostly
> for the cabinet or cages.  They're not as reliable.
> 3Com has made a comeback, since they purchased Huwaei. A boss of  
> mine has
> told me he did a lot of jobs pulling old 3Comms as they were
> Failure prone.
>
> One that shows promise for less money than CISCO, and without the  
> annoying
> CISCO SmartNet annual re-licensing is HP Procurve.  Price is  
> slightly less
> than CISCO and HP is known for making good hardware, no matter the
> application.
>
> Tony Costa
> tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com my alter ego
> tcosta at icbsnet.com my paycheck
> 1-401-556-7686 mobile
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:00 PM
> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
>
> Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
> 	bblisa at bblisa.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	bblisa-request at bblisa.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	bblisa-owner at bblisa.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of bblisa digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Cisco versus Dell switches (stephen g. wadlow)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:34:58 -0500
> From: "stephen g. wadlow" <sgw at wadlow.net>
> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
> To: Edward Ned Harvey <bblisa2 at nedharvey.com>
> Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Message-ID: <3D5D2D3E-97F7-42AD-BD18-14918B1E7A34 at wadlow.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I've had quite the opposite experience.   I don't think I've worked
> with a netgear switch (old or new) that didn't freak out and need to
> be rebooted on a regular basis.
>
> I've become something of a fan of Foundry FastIrons over the last few
> years.   They're solid, manageable, and typically much cheaper than a
> "comparable" cisco, moreso on the grey market.
>
> 						-steve
>
>
> On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>
>> Y'know, I've always liked netgear switches myself, but I didn't
>> know they
>> made managed switches.  So I'll look into that as well.
>>
>> Thanks...
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dave Pascoe [mailto:km3t at km3t.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:04 PM
>>> To: Edward Ned Harvey
>>> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
>>>
>>> I know you're only looking at Cisco and Dell.  Don't overlook
>>> Netgear -
>>> I used to snub them but after testing their newer lines of switches
>>> find
>>> them to be really nice.  And stable.  The managed switches are
>>> actually
>>> affordable and feature rich.
>>>
>>> I've used almost all the major manufacturers and have done work in
>>> some
>>> heavy duty environments...so my recommendation isn't coming from  
>>> left
>>> field.  :-)
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>>> Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.   
>>>> The
>>>> question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.
>>> Enough
>>>> to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit,
>>> against
>>>> 24port managed gigabit.
>>>>
>>>> If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and
>>>> remain
>>>> operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at
>>>> all
>>> times
>>>> with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure,  
>>>> and I
>>> RMA the
>>>> device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour,
>>> while Dell
>>>> RMA is NBD.
>>>>
>>>> But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would
>>> crash.
>>>> I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now
>>> it's
>>>> unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network
>>> hardware.
>>>> It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
>>>> resolved.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work
>>> without
>>>> problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic
>>> across the
>>>> network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash?
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> bblisa mailing list
>>>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>>>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bblisa mailing list
>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
> **************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From scott at MIT.EDU  Fri Nov 23 17:01:11 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:01:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231658390.24595@mint-square.mit.edu>

Also sent to Codeweavers - [what is this list's insights?]

I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core desktop machine and was considering 32-bit 
Windows XP w/SP2, but discovered it only supports up to 4 GB RAM, so that idea 
is shot.

Next in line is 64-bit CentOS 5.   The major need for Windows would be very 
active use of Adobe Acrobat 8, Photoshop CS3, and Illustrator CS3.

There may also be the need to copy/transfer information among Matlab, 
Mathematica, and Microsoft-based applications, from Office 2003 to the 
above-mentioned ones.

Do you support these, and how complete is your product line for 64-bit CentOS 
5?

Based on your answer, I'll know whether to go with a virtual machine-based 
solution, which means a Windows VM, or can remain Linux-only, with your 
solution.

Thank you very much.

Scott



From bblisa2 at nedharvey.com  Sat Nov 24 09:20:50 2007
From: bblisa2 at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231658390.24595@mint-square.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231658390.24595@mint-square.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <01dd01c82ea5$38429bb0$a8c7d310$@com>

How about installing CentOS x86_64, and installing Windows XP as a virtual
machine inside of it?
If you've never installed a virtual machine, just say so and I'll simplify
it for you.  It's only hard to figure it out for the first time.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 5:01 PM
> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
> 
> Also sent to Codeweavers - [what is this list's insights?]
> 
> I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core desktop machine and was considering 32-
> bit
> Windows XP w/SP2, but discovered it only supports up to 4 GB RAM, so
> that idea
> is shot.
> 
> Next in line is 64-bit CentOS 5.   The major need for Windows would be
> very
> active use of Adobe Acrobat 8, Photoshop CS3, and Illustrator CS3.
> 
> There may also be the need to copy/transfer information among Matlab,
> Mathematica, and Microsoft-based applications, from Office 2003 to the
> above-mentioned ones.
> 
> Do you support these, and how complete is your product line for 64-bit
> CentOS
> 5?
> 
> Based on your answer, I'll know whether to go with a virtual machine-
> based
> solution, which means a Windows VM, or can remain Linux-only, with your
> solution.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From scott at MIT.EDU  Sat Nov 24 09:34:26 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:34:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
In-Reply-To: <01dd01c82ea5$38429bb0$a8c7d310$@com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231658390.24595@mint-square.mit.edu>
	<01dd01c82ea5$38429bb0$a8c7d310$@com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711240931470.6750@home-on-the-dome.mit.edu>

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

> How about installing CentOS x86_64, and installing Windows XP as a virtual
> machine inside of it?
> If you've never installed a virtual machine, just say so and I'll simplify
> it for you.  It's only hard to figure it out for the first time.
>

I have strong experience with VMWare, with both Windows and Linux as 
hosts.  It has proven its performance limitations, and I'm trying to find 
the most seamless solution to permit using full hardware functionality and 
requisite applications.   VMWare is a consideration.

We shall see, soon enough, what direction I end up with...

Please keep the insights/comments coming!

Thanks again to everyone for the great discussion thus far!

Scott

>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 5:01 PM
>> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
>> Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
>>
>> Also sent to Codeweavers - [what is this list's insights?]
>>
>> I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core desktop machine and was considering 32-
>> bit
>> Windows XP w/SP2, but discovered it only supports up to 4 GB RAM, so
>> that idea
>> is shot.
>>
>> Next in line is 64-bit CentOS 5.   The major need for Windows would be
>> very
>> active use of Adobe Acrobat 8, Photoshop CS3, and Illustrator CS3.
>>
>> There may also be the need to copy/transfer information among Matlab,
>> Mathematica, and Microsoft-based applications, from Office 2003 to the
>> above-mentioned ones.
>>
>> Do you support these, and how complete is your product line for 64-bit
>> CentOS
>> 5?
>>
>> Based on your answer, I'll know whether to go with a virtual machine-
>> based
>> solution, which means a Windows VM, or can remain Linux-only, with your
>> solution.
>>
>> Thank you very much.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bblisa mailing list
>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From seph at directionless.org  Sat Nov 24 16:01:30 2007
From: seph at directionless.org (seph)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:01:30 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Re: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <279E9F57-C211-40BF-8A9C-A220CC91096E@rentul.net> (Sean Lutner's
	message of "Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:29:40 -0500")
References: <20071120170003.6890C7703C@bblisa.bblisa.org>
	<006f01c82b9e$1aacf9b0$5006ed10$@costa1@verizon.net>
	<279E9F57-C211-40BF-8A9C-A220CC91096E@rentul.net>
Message-ID: <w523auvbbo5.fsf@lame.message.id>

In contrast, I've had nothing but good luck with the procurves. Easy
to use, and totally solid.

As this is now the second person I've heard complaints from, I'd like
to know more. Which models did you have trouble with? I've had
excellent experiences with the 4000, 2524, 2850, and 2650. None too
big, so maybe the problems are on the larger lines?

At this point I like my managed switches to be procurve or cisco, and
my dinky unmanaged ones to be netgear.

seph

Sean Lutner <sean at rentul.net> writes:

> I would recommend strongly against HP Procurve switches for anything
> other than a doorstop.
>
> I recently watched multiple Procurve switches sporadically reboot
> themselves (multiple times, in an unpredictable fashion), fail to
> provide properly functioning BOOTP helpers, fail to provide sensible
> 802.1x configuration options, awful VLAN configuration and generally
> become unstable with small work loads (few dozen machines doing
> automated installs).
>
> Said swtches have since been ripped out and replaced with Cisco and
> life is better now.
>
> On Nov 20, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Antonio Costa wrote:
>
>> I worked for a Hosting company in the past  that used DELL switches
>> mostly
>> for the cabinet or cages.  They're not as reliable.
>> 3Com has made a comeback, since they purchased Huwaei. A boss of
>> mine has
>> told me he did a lot of jobs pulling old 3Comms as they were
>> Failure prone.
>>
>> One that shows promise for less money than CISCO, and without the
>> annoying
>> CISCO SmartNet annual re-licensing is HP Procurve.  Price is
>> slightly less
>> than CISCO and HP is known for making good hardware, no matter the
>> application.
>>
>> Tony Costa
>> tonycosta at globaltelebrokers.com my alter ego
>> tcosta at icbsnet.com my paycheck
>> 1-401-556-7686 mobile
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org]
>> On Behalf
>> Of bblisa-request at bblisa.org
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:00 PM
>> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
>> Subject: bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
>>
>> Send bblisa mailing list submissions to
>> 	bblisa at bblisa.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	bblisa-request at bblisa.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	bblisa-owner at bblisa.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of bblisa digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Cisco versus Dell switches (stephen g. wadlow)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:34:58 -0500
>> From: "stephen g. wadlow" <sgw at wadlow.net>
>> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
>> To: Edward Ned Harvey <bblisa2 at nedharvey.com>
>> Cc: bblisa at bblisa.org
>> Message-ID: <3D5D2D3E-97F7-42AD-BD18-14918B1E7A34 at wadlow.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> I've had quite the opposite experience.   I don't think I've worked
>> with a netgear switch (old or new) that didn't freak out and need to
>> be rebooted on a regular basis.
>>
>> I've become something of a fan of Foundry FastIrons over the last few
>> years.   They're solid, manageable, and typically much cheaper than a
>> "comparable" cisco, moreso on the grey market.
>>
>> 						-steve
>>
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>
>>> Y'know, I've always liked netgear switches myself, but I didn't
>>> know they
>>> made managed switches.  So I'll look into that as well.
>>>
>>> Thanks...
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dave Pascoe [mailto:km3t at km3t.org]
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 4:04 PM
>>>> To: Edward Ned Harvey
>>>> Subject: Re: [BBLISA] Cisco versus Dell switches
>>>>
>>>> I know you're only looking at Cisco and Dell.  Don't overlook
>>>> Netgear -
>>>> I used to snub them but after testing their newer lines of switches
>>>> find
>>>> them to be really nice.  And stable.  The managed switches are
>>>> actually
>>>> affordable and feature rich.
>>>>
>>>> I've used almost all the major manufacturers and have done work in
>>>> some
>>>> heavy duty environments...so my recommendation isn't coming from
>>>> left
>>>> field.  :-)
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>>>> Hey everyone.  I know cisco is better; that's not the question.
>>>>> The
>>>>> question is - is cisco better in any of the ways I will care about.
>>>> Enough
>>>>> to outweigh the extra cost.  I'm comparing 24port managed gigabit,
>>>> against
>>>>> 24port managed gigabit.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I buy the cisco, I am sure the switches will be stable, and
>>>>> remain
>>>>> operational, I can safely assume they continue doing their job at
>>>>> all
>>>> times
>>>>> with pure trust.  Until the switch suffers some total failure,
>>>>> and I
>>>> RMA the
>>>>> device.  I am prepared to face the risk that cisco RMA is 4 hour,
>>>> while Dell
>>>>> RMA is NBD.
>>>>>
>>>>> But in the past (2002) I had problems with Dell switches that would
>>>> crash.
>>>>> I was in a company that used experimental network hardware, but now
>>>> it's
>>>>> unclear if the cause was the switches or the experimental network
>>>> hardware.
>>>>> It's also unclear if there was a problem back in 2002, which is now
>>>>> resolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone use Dell switches, can you say you're able to work
>>>> without
>>>>> problems in general?  You're able to put some heavy NFS traffic
>>>> across the
>>>>> network, and the switches don't unexplainedly crash?
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> bblisa mailing list
>>>>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>>>>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bblisa mailing list
>>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bblisa mailing list
>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>>
>> End of bblisa Digest, Vol 48, Issue 18
>> **************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bblisa mailing list
>> bblisa at bblisa.org
>> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From phil.bertuglia at gmail.com  Sat Nov 24 17:23:42 2007
From: phil.bertuglia at gmail.com (google)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:23:42 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] blank
Message-ID: <EC3F6805-F076-4E15-825F-916C98015C3E@gmail.com>




From scott at MIT.EDU  Sun Nov 25 09:15:36 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:15:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Tape backup
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711250915260.20155@department-of-alchemy.mit.edu>

For a machine with 750 GB x 4 SATA drives (connected to SAS backplane) = 3 TB 
(roughly), what would be a recommended native/compressed lto3 [half-height] 
capacity drive to use for backup?  This is a standalone desktop.

I am considering Windows native backup, if that will work with a tape drive.

Some of what I've seen are 400 GB native / 800 GB compressed.  Normally I'd 
think that would fill quickly, but with tape drive technology and software, 
another part of me thinks it may last longer than I expect.  I look forward to 
getting educated here.

Thanks.

Scott



From bblisa2 at nedharvey.com  Sun Nov 25 09:24:32 2007
From: bblisa2 at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:24:32 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711240931470.6750@home-on-the-dome.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231658390.24595@mint-square.mit.edu>
	<01dd01c82ea5$38429bb0$a8c7d310$@com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711240931470.6750@home-on-the-dome.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <002801c82f6e$e6960ac0$b3c22040$@com>

Hey, one other question - 

Are you 100% sure you can't use 32G of memory in Windows?  Here's my
experience...

I had a 16G redhat system.  Using the base kernel, the OS was able to see 4G
of memory, and individual processes were limited to 3G.  So I installed the
"hugemem" kernel (which is precompiled, a standard rpm package) and that
allowed the OS to see all 16G, but individual processes were still limited
to 3G.

In windows, I guess there are some switches you can stick into your
boot.ini, such as /3g /4g and /PAE, but I didn't read closely enough to know
what they're used for, or what their limitations are.



From scott at MIT.EDU  Sun Nov 25 09:38:23 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:38:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Adobe products under Linux?
In-Reply-To: <002801c82f6e$e6960ac0$b3c22040$@com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231658390.24595@mint-square.mit.edu>
	<01dd01c82ea5$38429bb0$a8c7d310$@com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711240931470.6750@home-on-the-dome.mit.edu>
	<002801c82f6e$e6960ac0$b3c22040$@com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711250937340.21616@department-of-alchemy.mit.edu>

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:

> Hey, one other question -
>
> Are you 100% sure you can't use 32G of memory in Windows?  Here's my
> experience...
>
> I had a 16G redhat system.  Using the base kernel, the OS was able to see 4G
> of memory, and individual processes were limited to 3G.  So I installed the
> "hugemem" kernel (which is precompiled, a standard rpm package) and that
> allowed the OS to see all 16G, but individual processes were still limited
> to 3G.
>
> In windows, I guess there are some switches you can stick into your
> boot.ini, such as /3g /4g and /PAE, but I didn't read closely enough to know
> what they're used for, or what their limitations are.

I've seen these switches, too, read a lot, received varying feedback, and 
don't have a good answer, either.

More research and testing...

Thanks.

Scott

>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa
>



From oneill at oinc.net  Sun Nov 25 09:55:53 2007
From: oneill at oinc.net (Brian O'Neill)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 09:55:53 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Tape backup
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711250915260.20155@department-of-alchemy.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711250915260.20155@department-of-alchemy.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <47498CF9.5030100@oinc.net>

LTO-3 _is_ 400GB/800GB. I don't think you'll see drives differing on 
that. LTO-2 is half that capacity, and LTO-4 is twice it - they keep a 
fairly steady doubling of the capacity in the LTO specs. Whether 400/800 
is enough for you may depend on frequency and level of the backups (full 
  vs. incremental backups).

The problem with LTO-3 and up is that most standalone systems alone 
can't keep up with tape drives. If the system can't keep the data fed to 
it fast enough to keep the tape moving, it has to stop and start the 
tape, which hurts performance further and tends to wear the drive 
components faster (the "shoeshining effect"). If the drives are in a 
raid array, that might be better. I generally wouldn't recommend it for 
a standalone system though.

I have two LTO-3s connected on their own SCSI bus to a dual-core Dell 
1950 server with a VTL connected via FibreChannel. Initial backups go to 
the VTL, and then they are pushed to one of the tape drives when the 
system is idle. I only use one tape at a time, and still the system at 
times the tape has to pause. However, the average throughput is still 
way faster than LTO-2.

The main problem is that hard disks are growing much faster than tape 
capacities. For standalone uses a removable drive unit of some form 
would probably be more effective.

Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> For a machine with 750 GB x 4 SATA drives (connected to SAS backplane) = 
> 3 TB (roughly), what would be a recommended native/compressed lto3 
> [half-height] capacity drive to use for backup?  This is a standalone 
> desktop.
> 
> I am considering Windows native backup, if that will work with a tape 
> drive.
> 
> Some of what I've seen are 400 GB native / 800 GB compressed.  Normally 
> I'd think that would fill quickly, but with tape drive technology and 
> software, another part of me thinks it may last longer than I expect.  I 
> look forward to getting educated here.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From scott at MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 27 09:35:56 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Need help with httpd.conf not rendering cgi or php files
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711270935300.3394@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>

I got this working perfectly at home - what should be exact same setups-

- Fresh install of CentOS 5 32-bit from DVD
- yum update & upgrade
- Reboot
- yum install mysql-server
- Download phpmyadmin and bugzilla from their respective home pages
- Move both to /var/www/html, naming the extracted phpmyadmin directory as 
phpmyadmin, the same with bugzilla
- Copy my working httpd.conf file from home and replacing the work one, then 
restarting httpd - sudo /etc/init.d/httpd restart
- Verify mysql is running - sudo /etc/init.d/mysqld restart

Call up firefox via an ssh x session and visit 
http://localhost/phpmyadmin/index.php.  Instead of showing a rendered page, it 
only shows the text of the index.php file.

Same for http://localhost/bugzilla/index.cgi

What did I miss?  The same config file from home, in a setup that worked 
perfectly, is missing something here!

/usr/sbin/httpd -v
Server version: Apache/2.2.3

Thanks for any help.

Scott



From scott at MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 27 10:09:44 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:09:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Need help with httpd.conf not rendering cgi or php files
In-Reply-To: <20071127145553.GF19908@tao.merseine.nu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711270935300.3394@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>
	<20071127145553.GF19908@tao.merseine.nu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711271007400.5099@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>

No luck.  If I have to, I'll go back home tonight and type history to see 
if anything there reveals anything!

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Dan Ritter wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 09:35:56AM -0500, Scott Ehrlich wrote:
>> Call up firefox via an ssh x session and visit
>> http://localhost/phpmyadmin/index.php.  Instead of showing a rendered page,
>> it only shows the text of the index.php file.
>>
>> Same for http://localhost/bugzilla/index.cgi
>>
>> What did I miss?  The same config file from home, in a setup that worked
>> perfectly, is missing something here!
>
> Those would be problems in the httpd.conf or what it is
> controlling.
>
> <IfModule mod_php4.c>
>  AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .phtml .php3
>  AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps
> </IfModule>
>
> and in a Directory:
>
> Options ExecCGI Indexes FollowSymlinks
> AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
>
> -dsr-
>



From scott at MIT.EDU  Tue Nov 27 10:41:47 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:41:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Need help with httpd.conf not rendering cgi or php files
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711271041280.6969@scrubbing-bubbles.mit.edu>

Problem solved - I discoverered was not installed.  I guess yum install 
wildcards - *whatever* doesn't always work!

I performed a manual yum install php php4 php5 php-mysql and discovered php and 
php-cli need to be installed.  Well, ya learn something every day!

Thanks to all who helped!

Until my next question/problem...

Scott



From scott at MIT.EDU  Thu Nov 29 08:50:32 2007
From: scott at MIT.EDU (Scott Ehrlich)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:50:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [BBLISA] Deleting files from dump?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711290850240.1439@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>

Is it possible to delete a file from dump?   I saved it in one dump archive, 
and want to save space by deleting it from the others.

Thanks.

Scott



From jco at direwolf.com  Thu Nov 29 09:17:37 2007
From: jco at direwolf.com (John Orthoefer)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:17:37 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Deleting files from dump?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711290850240.1439@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711290850240.1439@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <474ECA01.2040908@direwolf.com>

I doubt it.   If you mean, you have 2 tapes with the same file on it, 
and you want to remove it from one tape.

We use to have classified and non-classified backup tapes, and if 
something got retroactively classified from the non-classified system we 
had to classify the all the backups which contained that file.   Because 
15 years ago dump couldn't do that, selectively remove files from a 
backup.  It's theoretically possible but you'd have to do it  but you'd 
have to write something that would stream from one tape to another, and 
edit the stream on copy. 

If you mean you backed it up with dump, and it's a static file and you 
don't want it to appear in the future backups that is what incremental 
do for you.  But that assumes 1) it's static 2) you don't fulls very 
often.  With a product like Legato you can tell it to ignore a 
file/directory, again I don't think dump currently knows how to do that.

johno

Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> Is it possible to delete a file from dump?   I saved it in one dump 
> archive, and want to save space by deleting it from the others.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa



From patpaul at nebsystems.com  Thu Nov 29 16:11:59 2007
From: patpaul at nebsystems.com (Patrick Paul)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:11:59 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231214320.3557@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711230719140.21239@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>	<4622D14D213DE342A0478D9030CD892718199291@MI8NYCMAIL01.Mi8.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711231214320.3557@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <474F2B1F.8070905@nebsystems.com>

Sorry for the delay, just getting to post-thxgiving day stuff now.

Scott Ehrlich wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Nathan Faust wrote:
> 
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> Have you looked into Windows XP x86-64?  If you need to stay in the
>> Windows world, that would be the way to go.
> 
> I'm looking at everything.  According to the Adobe user forums, though, 
> Illustrator, Acrobat, and Photoshop don't seem to play well in the 
> 64-bit worlds.  I have a query into Adobe's support for an answer.
> 
> Anyone know?   I have Illustrator CS3 and Photoshop CS3 and Acrobat 8.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott

I've used Adobe CS3 Design Premium, which includes Illustrator, Acrobat 
and Photoshop on Vista-64, and the software was functional but 'ugly'. 
Windows didn't look right, things didn't refresh.  Of all the 32-bit 
software out there, I've found Adobe apps to work the least.

Alternatively, you can get the 32-bit version of Windows Server 2003 
Enterprise R2, which supports 32GB of ram.  There are instructions 
online that will let you get a more desktop experience, such as enabling 
audio and visual features of XP, but I don't have a link just now.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.mspx

Unless other hardware in your environment is not Vista-compatible, I 
would try Vista-64 first and see if the Adobe capabilities are good 
enough.  Failing that, Windows Server Enterprise would be your best bet.



> 
>>
>> Nathan.
>> -------------------------------------------
>> Nathan Faust
>> Systems Administrator :: Merchant Warehouse
>> www.MerchantWarehouse.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org
>>> [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
>>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:26 AM
>>> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
>>> Subject: [BBLISA] What to do with a RAM-heavy desktop?
>>>
>>> So I have a 32 GB, dual quad-core processor desktop to
>>> configure.   It
>>> seems like likely I'd install 32-bit Windows XP on it, with
>>> respect to the user needing Adobe Acrobat, Illustrator, and
>>> Photoshop, along with Matlab (which we have Linux versions
>>> of) and Mathematica (which we can get Linux versions of, too).
>>>
>>> But with 32-bit Win XP with SP2, we waste 28 GB, as it can
>>> only use 4 GB.
>>>
>>> The user is equally Unix-capable, and I could easily install
>>> 64-bit CentOS, but how could I enable them to fully take
>>> advantage of the Adobe products on the system natively (i.e
>>> w/o using a VM)?
>>>
>>> Crossover Office does NOT show the Adobe products as
>>> supported apps in their tested list.
>>>
>>> What to do...
>>>
>>> Insights welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________




From bblisa2 at nedharvey.com  Thu Nov 29 20:49:20 2007
From: bblisa2 at nedharvey.com (Edward Ned Harvey)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:49:20 -0500
Subject: [BBLISA] Deleting files from dump?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711290850240.1439@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.64L.0711290850240.1439@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c832f3$3b191380$b14b3a80$@com>

I think the best you can do is to make use of dumplevels.  "I backed it up
in one dump, and I don't want to back it up again in subsequent dumps."
That's the point of dumplevels.

After you've created a dump, I don't believe there's any way to remove a
specific file from that dump.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org [mailto:bblisa-bounces at bblisa.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Ehrlich
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:51 AM
> To: bblisa at bblisa.org
> Subject: [BBLISA] Deleting files from dump?
> 
> Is it possible to delete a file from dump?   I saved it in one dump
> archive,
> and want to save space by deleting it from the others.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bblisa mailing list
> bblisa at bblisa.org
> http://www.bblisa.org/mailman/listinfo/bblisa